RS outnumber us 2:1 in Liverpool, has it always been this way?

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Reading up more about Catterick (couple of news articles from The Guardian and The Echo, plus a book by Sawyer), I feel that is definitely where the divergence between the status of the two clubs begins.

While Shankly was telling the world he was building a “bastion of invincibility”, Catterick was shutting the doors of the club to the outside world. The RS were the first team on Match of the Day (vs Arsenal), while Catterick was against the club being shown on tv.

The 60s was such a pivotal moment in pop culture, of which sport is a big player. United and the RS really took off in that period (Shankly as mentioned was the trigger for the RS, while United’s was the story of the Busby babes and the Munich crash, followed by the Busby leading a team (including first celebrity footballer George Best) to the EC a decade after the disaster). Whether it’s tag lines such as This is Anfield, or Theatre of Dreams, the mystique/stature/identity of both clubs in the media has remained since then.

There’s also another factor, legacy. From what I’ve read thus far Catterick is seen as a ‘chequebook’ manager, able to bring in top players under Moores. When he left, that was it, there was nothing for his successor to pick up. Of course that his successor was the god awful Billy Bingham didn’t help. With Shankly it’s the opposite, the boot room. A management structure he had set in place that was able to continue from where he left off, similar training methods and playing style, and he also left his successor a load of top young talent (Keegan, Toshack, Clemence, Heighway, Hughes, Thompson etc.).

It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted. You can see this today with the difference in appearance of banners, flags etc. Colour is also one of the thing that attracts fans.

On a side note to this, the way Catterick treated Alex Young was a disgrace. Told by Catterick he would receive 1k when he left the club, then when he went to get the money Catterick tells him you should have got it down in writing. Young walked out and never spoke to him again, surprised he didn’t chin him.
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted.
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Shankly became a relic to the RS quickly enough when they turned their back on him.
 
I honestly couldn't care less - I've said for a while their success is largely down to appointing a world class manager combined with a massive stroke of luck in sound recruitment over a short space of time.

Henry has neither the funds nor the desire to bankroll LFC to dominate English football like Man City have hes in it for profit as are all Yank owners.

I've maintained for a while so long as Usmanov lives a long life and is here to bankroll us year on year - in 10 years time we'll be equal if not the more successful side especially if they replace Klopp with a dud you can quote me on that.
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
Reading up more about Catterick (couple of news articles from The Guardian and The Echo, plus a book by Sawyer), I feel that is definitely where the divergence between the status of the two clubs begins.

While Shankly was telling the world he was building a “bastion of invincibility”, Catterick was shutting the doors of the club to the outside world. The RS were the first team on Match of the Day (vs Arsenal), while Catterick was against the club being shown on tv.

The 60s was such a pivotal moment in pop culture, of which sport is a big player. United and the RS really took off in that period (Shankly as mentioned was the trigger for the RS, while United’s was the story of the Busby babes and the Munich crash, followed by the Busby leading a team (including first celebrity footballer George Best) to the EC a decade after the disaster). Whether it’s tag lines such as This is Anfield, or Theatre of Dreams, the mystique/stature/identity of both clubs in the media has remained since then.

There’s also another factor, legacy. From what I’ve read thus far Catterick is seen as a ‘chequebook’ manager, able to bring in top players under Moores. When he left, that was it, there was nothing for his successor to pick up. Of course that his successor was the god awful Billy Bingham didn’t help. With Shankly it’s the opposite, the boot room. A management structure he had set in place that was able to continue from where he left off, similar training methods and playing style, and he also left his successor a load of top young talent (Keegan, Toshack, Clemence, Heighway, Hughes, Thompson etc.).

It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted. You can see this today with the difference in appearance of banners, flags etc. Colour is also one of the thing that attracts fans.

On a side note to this, the way Catterick treated Alex Young was a disgrace. Told by Catterick he would receive 1k when he left the club, then when he went to get the money Catterick tells him you should have got it down in writing. Young walked out and never spoke to him again, surprised he didn’t chin him.
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A Liverpool fan trying to use ancient history to score internet points in a wind up thread.

God humanity is weird.
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
Reading up more about Catterick (couple of news articles from The Guardian and The Echo, plus a book by Sawyer), I feel that is definitely where the divergence between the status of the two clubs begins.

While Shankly was telling the world he was building a “bastion of invincibility”, Catterick was shutting the doors of the club to the outside world. The RS were the first team on Match of the Day (vs Arsenal), while Catterick was against the club being shown on tv.

The 60s was such a pivotal moment in pop culture, of which sport is a big player. United and the RS really took off in that period (Shankly as mentioned was the trigger for the RS, while United’s was the story of the Busby babes and the Munich crash, followed by the Busby leading a team (including first celebrity footballer George Best) to the EC a decade after the disaster). Whether it’s tag lines such as This is Anfield, or Theatre of Dreams, the mystique/stature/identity of both clubs in the media has remained since then.

There’s also another factor, legacy. From what I’ve read thus far Catterick is seen as a ‘chequebook’ manager, able to bring in top players under Moores. When he left, that was it, there was nothing for his successor to pick up. Of course that his successor was the god awful Billy Bingham didn’t help. With Shankly it’s the opposite, the boot room. A management structure he had set in place that was able to continue from where he left off, similar training methods and playing style, and he also left his successor a load of top young talent (Keegan, Toshack, Clemence, Heighway, Hughes, Thompson etc.).

It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted. You can see this today with the difference in appearance of banners, flags etc. Colour is also one of the thing that attracts fans.

On a side note to this, the way Catterick treated Alex Young was a disgrace. Told by Catterick he would receive 1k when he left the club, then when he went to get the money Catterick tells him you should have got it down in writing. Young walked out and never spoke to him again, surprised he didn’t chin him.
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Lovely history lesson. Now tell us all about what your beloved cult got up to in '85. Or how you lot treated Shankly. Or how you lot canonise racists like Tommy Smith and Suarez.

Or go and pull yourself off to a picture of Dirk 'Jimmy Savile' Kuyt, you massive virgin.
 
Let's look at some facts .How many people are in Liverpool and how many will fit into the grounds ? I think it is now obvious that there simply must be many armchair fans ! Don't we have a waiting list for season tickets ?
I know that from my time going to the match even when Liverpool were in the 2nd division it was about 50/50 .
Now it is certain they will have more fans because of press coverage and their success .The time when for me it swayed was the sympathy for the loss of 96 lives .
It gave them worldwide recognition ,that and the Beatles ,the fame brought fans to the city and it so easy to pick up on a successful team that has the name of the city .
Living in Finland most people ,when asking me where I am from automatically presume I am a red and they on average don't know that Everton is a Liverpool city side .
I used to work for a housing association maintenance company and going around the housing stock I would think it is quite even in the proximity of the grounds with an obvious bias toward each ground .
 
artetas_biggest_fan said:
Had never trawled through our thread on Rawk until today, and came across this (link from a study from our Bramley Moore planning application)



In the survey of which team did you support, half were RS, and a quarter support us, “which broadly aligns with the split across the city”.


Has the 2:1 ratio always been this way? And if not, when did it change?


In Ireland it’s always been United, RS, Celtic, Rangers (unfortunately the last two usually based on religion), then a smattering of other clubs (usually when that particular team is doing well). I was drawn to big Nev (first game was in ‘91).
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Utter BS.
 
Not having that me, who did they ask? There’s plenty of wools in town so they’re all gonna be RS, I never got asked. In my opinion, in the city, it’s fairly even.
 
....there is no doubt the population of the city has changed in the last decade. Like other places, there is now a significant number of immigrants and a growing number of students. As a major port, the City has always been cosmopolitan but even that dynamic has changed significantly.

For obvious reasons, it’s easy for those ‘newcomers’ to pledge their allegiance to the Reds. I think there’s also a study which says LFC has the greatest number of season ticket holders who travel over a 100 miles to get to home games.
 
its more than likely 3-1 or more these days sadly.

What i would say is most everton fans are proper supporters who go either all the time or at least a few a season, rather than the tellyclapping reds who watch something else rather than the big games but make sure theyre loud and proud when its against united or a finale etc.

as Labone said....
 
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