Ross Barkley

[granter79]

He won't progress his game much here. I mean, what is there to teach someone after they hear what you're saying and run a lot longer and harder and lay the ball off more? What's the next step after that? He already has the explosive creativity so he won't be taught that.

If he develops it'll be away from this club under this manager, that's for sure.

You are some whopper

 

[Wizard]

Rooney had nothing taken away from him by going to United. That club allowed him to showcase his ability. Rooney was never a show boating player full of tricks. He's always been a player who ruthlessly knows what to do to hurt teams.

Barkley going to an elite club would be expected to get behind the ball and work, yes. But the other side of his game would be emphasised and accentuated as the positive it should be. Here under this regime and with some of our own fans it's almost seem as a sign that he's just arseing around.

Bottom line here is that many of our own supporters would rather see Barkley leg it about blocking and tackling than getting on the ball and driving toward the opposition penalty area.

I'll never understand that mentality. As said: giving donkeys strawberries.

Rooney was never a showboater? Tell that to the West Brom mug when he stood on the ball and then got cleaned up. I think it was Darren Moore if you want to look it up.

Rooney burst on the scene for United and then spent years playing second fiddle
To Ronaldo, Tevez etc. He had to do that as he was a more diverse player.

If you can't see/or accept that Rooney was changed as a player at united then you are an even bigger troll than I expected

 

[catcherintherye]

L

He'd be close to double figures this season if he'd buried about 4-5 really gilt edged chances he's had, small margins and all that, it's also massively apparent that teams have set out to deny him the chance to shoot from range - and they can do that because we lack goals/threat from other areas of the pitch besides Lukaku, give him the type of space we gave Kane - or the space he was affored his first couple of seasons before teams realsied what a danger he was from distance and he'd score more/.

Hopefully coupled with his steady imrpvement we are seeing then we bring in another focal point of the attack and that will see Barkleys productivity rise

Yes To the first. With a bit of work on his heading chances like Southampton and west brom away can be finished. Easy and cheap goals really but it's what Alli flourishes at.

They are denying him the chance which is understandable, he should shoot from range when he can be also vary his game more.

 

[leslad]

He won't progress his game much here. I mean, what is there to teach someone after they hear what you're saying and run a lot longer and harder and lay the ball off more? What's the next step after that? He already has the explosive creativity so he won't be taught that.

If he develops it'll be away from this club under this manager, that's for sure.

This suggests that you think he would develop further under a different manager or different management style. What sort of style of management / system do you think would help him develop?

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

He's playing too conservatively for me.

He did need to learn to keep it simple at times, that's for sure. But I see a player that doesn't do what comes natural anymore and that is to get on the ball and try and make things happen. Certainly not as often as he used to. If he's learned a bit of discipline about pitch craft then great. But the stick has been bent back too far in the opposite direction for me and the way he's being coached is discouraging his creativity.

Did you see the Spurs game, Dave? He was all over the place, taking the game by the scruff of the neck and trying to make things happen

Didn't help that the rest of the team were gash like, but he tried.

 

[davek]

Morgan can't offer was Ross can, because if he could. He wouldn't have spent all their careers as defensive/ball winning midfielder.

For me over the last 3 months, Ross is playing the most consistent football of his career.

Hopefully moving on from a andros Townsend type player. 1 brilliant games 6 bad ones

I think we keep getting told to think that.

It's just spin, imo. I see someone fitting in with a system and not developing the enormous talent he undoubtedly has.

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

I think we keep getting told to think that.

It's just spin, imo. I see someone fitting in with a system and not developing the enormous talent he undoubtedly has.

A spin like everything else mate ?

 

[davek]

I would disagree on that Gerrard and Lampard comment mate. That said I don't really consider Lampard a central midfilder more an 8 and a half with drawn or a 10. He did have tackling and tracking back responsibilities though this area of his game is completely overlooked he largely played under coaches with rigid defensive systems. I think Lampard wouldn't have thrived in historical football he was lucky to have played in an era were football systems developed beyond 4-4-2 he wasn't very creative at all. I think your wrong on Gerrard I think he had a huge defensive responsibility throughout his career and was a very disciplined player, he played many posititions that required broad skill sets both creative and defensive he was a very balanced footballer both defensively and creatively.

Have to say I think your completely wrong, Barkley was told he was the best player in the world by Martinez and told to play were he liked the semi vs Utd last season typified that to me he was awful and a passenger, it was like having 10 men. He didn't influence games, the tempo and got a goal or assist in one of five games that looked good. Koeman has brought him along to the point now that he can influence every game, I don't think he is the finished article in the role he's playing and I expect him to reach a greater balance and effectiveness in his game but he is now progressing and developing for the first time since his breakthrough. I think He really suffered under Martinez and got exactly what he needed under Koeman I.e. A boot up the backside.

In terms of his best season it's what you value, a goal and assist in one in five game and being a passenger for the rest isn't good. Being effective in 38 games is better and the rest is good. Your also jumping the gun a bit there is just over a quater of the season to go yet.

It's an interesting point though when you look at the squad under Koeman who has progressed under his coaching from last season, Rom, Coleman certainly Ross for my money certainly.

Gerrard was the ultimate indulged player. That's why he couldn't get on with Benitez. Benitez tried to shackle his game and hand him a fixed position and with a lot more responsibility than just getting on the ball and making things happen.

Barkley: all this 'Koeman has done this and Koeman's done that' - I'm sorry, I think it's just parroting what the Echo would like everyone to swallow - that Koeman has the Midas touch on players (until he screws up big time like and then the knives will be in his back). He's clipped the lad's wings and made him play in a fashion that's alien to him for the most part. How has he influenced every game? That's not something I've particularly been picking up on and it's not been a feature picked up on too many times on this forum - just the same old anti-Barkley rants most post match analyses. In other words, it's just a position based on not much.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

I think we keep getting told to think that.

It's just spin, imo. I see someone fitting in with a system and not developing the enormous talent he undoubtedly has.

I don't need to be told
I can see it with my own eyes.

 

[davek]

The thing is mate, no way has Barkley been neutered into a hard pressing drone. He's still got his old qualities and he's added the work rate and pressing to make him a more rounded midfielder. He was being shoe horned into a number 10 role which I realise now was wrong for him. He's never going to consistently give you the umpteen goals/assists that you need to provide as a luxury player. So he's going to get stick when he isn't delivering, which affects his confidence.

His game had to change, and now you are seeing a more rounded and, importantly, more confident and happier Ross than we've seen for 12 months. All we need now is to buy a true No 10 and between them and Lukaku we will have the firepower to push the top 4. The big question for me is who to bring in at number 10, not whether Ross's talents are being wasted.

Dont hold your breath on a number 10. I dont see Koeman doing them. And that makes it even more of an issue what's happening with Barkley.

 

[davek]

The final pass leading to a shot at goal by a teammate.

Can I have some documentary proof it means this?

 

[Neiler]

Gerrard was the ultimate indulged player. That's why he couldn't get on with Benitez. Benitez tried to shackle his game and hand him a fixed position and with a lot more responsibility than just getting on the ball and making things happen.

Barkley: all this 'Koeman has done this and Koeman's done that' - I'm sorry, I think it's just parroting what the Echo would like everyone to swallow - that Koeman has the Midas touch on players (until he screws up big time like and then the knives will be in his back). He's clipped the lad's wings and made him play in a fashion that's alien to him for the most part. How has he influenced every game? That's not something I've particularly been picking up on and it's not been a feature picked up on too many times on this forum - just the same old anti-Barkley rants most post match analyses. In other words, it's just a position based on not much.

That's one perception mate, frankly I just think it's wrong, not even a little but thunderingly. But hey opinions and all that.

What I like about Koeman and his ability to manage a team is that it's March and the players haven't down tools.

You have me thinking though which players have improved and developed under Koeman management who were looking at their shoes this time last year? If you think Ross has regressed are there any players who have improved. I'd be interested to hear people's opinions?

 

[davek]

Actually Dave, he had his dynamism reduced (tempered) upon moving to United, it all became about the team rather than the individual, which is exactly what you are arguing against in regards to Barkley - so your arguing Rooney became better because of this, BArkley has been ruined because of this.

Which one is it then mate?

Thehnj again you seem to be saying that Rooney wasn't a player who whilst at Everton drove towards the opposition penalty area it seems

You're creating a false dichotomy. You think that an individual harnessing their talent to a team effort is at odds with someone being creative? Someone better tell Ibrahimovic has wasted his career.

 

[Connor]

Can I have some documentary proof it means this?

http://www.soccerstatistically.com/...e-epl-chances-created-and-chance-convers.html

"A common statistic that many people have begun to value and notice a lot recently is the chances created statistic. Chances created, according to Opta's website, is defined as "assists plus Key passes" where a Key Pass is "the final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring" (Opta is a company that tracks and generates a ton of data in soccer). So basically, any pass that leads to a shot is considered a chance created."

https://www.whoscored.com/Glossary

Key Pass
- The final pass leading to a shot at goal from a teammate

 

[davek]

Rooney was never a showboater? Tell that to the West Brom mug when he stood on the ball and then got cleaned up. I think it was Darren Moore if you want to look it up.

Rooney burst on the scene for United and then spent years playing second fiddle
To Ronaldo, Tevez etc. He had to do that as he was a more diverse player.

If you can't see/or accept that Rooney was changed as a player at united then you are an even bigger troll than I expected

Yes it was Moore. Do you want to know why you remember it? Because it was completely out of character.

I remember that game, it was a narky affair and Rooney was wound up beyond belief by the ref. That's how it came out.


Rooney has never been a player to get on the ball and seek to make an opponent look like a divvy. You must have been watching a different player for the past 15 years than me.