Ross Barkley

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People saying he needs better players around him so would fit in at Spurs/Arsenal, why sell now when we are supposedly going for these better players? With Moshiri's backing and Koemans 'project' we should be able to give him that platform to improve and as people have said, we dont need the money and he has enough quality to be in the first team squad

We know what ability he has got (even though its inconsistent) but at the moment you can see progress in the side that Martinez seemed to neglect - the defensive side. He's put more challenges in the past 3 games than he has done the past 2 years, he looks fitter, he's working harder and tracking back more. He has a long way to go but you can see the improvement and this is what he needs to keep doing if we are to play him further back, where most feel he's more effective.

Plus I would like to see him get a proper pre season under Koeman as he looks to have already improved his fitness since Koeman arrived.
 

Wilshire is basically the same as ross... didn't develop ... he's been playing with good players all his career ... what makes you think that ross would develop under Wenger? What is it that he would do that none of his other 7 managers havnt?

Cut above the managers hes had? Develops footballers rather than moulding them into a system that doesnt suit them?

Martinez got a tune out of him. Wasn't Barkley's fault we lost games.
 
People are obsessed with the starting 11 or nothing. Even if he isnt in the starting 11, it would be nice to have the option of bringing Barkley off the bench instead of Cleverley.

Its about having a quality squad and options if we want to compete for CL football. There is no point having a fantastic starting 11 then Kone, Gibson and Garbutt to rely on as backup.
 

People are obsessed with the starting 11 or nothing. Even if he isnt in the starting 11, it would be nice to have the option of bringing Barkley off the bench instead of Cleverley.

Its about having a quality squad and options if we want to compete for CL football. There is no point having a fantastic starting 11 then Kone, Gibson and Garbutt to rely on as backup.

I don't think he would be happy on the bench, as inconsistent as he is I think he would easily walk into the starting 11 of at least half the league.
 

I don't think he would be happy on the bench, as inconsistent as he is I think he would easily walk into the starting 11 of at least half the league.

No he wont but thats not to say he would be on the bench every week, top teams play so many games (league, EL/CL, F.A and league cup) and also top teams have class players on the bench - look at Fabregas at Chelsea.

Plus, Ross would start on the bench for any of the linked teams anyway.
 
The difficulty with Barkley is where he fits on our list of priorities. We currently have lots of players who can go tomorrow- (Gibson, Niasse, Kone, Garbutt) and then some more who to varying degrees have done ok for us, but in the medium term don’t have much of a future here. They may well try hard, but unless there is a big upturn you can’t imagine them playing for a top 6 team- (Oviedo, Cleverley, Lennon, Deulofeu, Mirallas, Jagielka, Galloway, Browning, with possibly McCarthy, Besic, Barry being added to the list).

Then at the other end you have lads who look good enough either now or young players you imagine stand a chance of being given time to get to that full potential. Lukaku, Gueye, Bolasie, Williams, Coleman, Baines. The issue for me with Ross is, he currently doesn’t fit either group. At his best he may well be our most important player, when he’s poor though there is little to separate him from say Mirallas.

I imagine if you coaches Barkley within a week you’d probably find 2 contradictory things out. 1 He is hugely talented, 2) he doesn’t “blend in” well to the way a squad plays. On the first point the lad can pretty much do everything. He can dribble, jink past people, pass short and long, tackle quite well, shoot and is not bad in the air. He has all the attributes to run a game from Central midfield.

Yet at the same time, if you take a lad like Lennon, or Cleverley, generally they never dominate or boss games, but they do fit into a side well. They don’t need the team to be built around them. Ross seems the opposite. Unless the team is set up to maximise his ability he struggles a bit. You move him position and he can be anonymous. I remember Lampard saying, people should judge him on his worst games, not his best. We all have days where everything goes right for us, but what is a player like in the other 8 or 9 games when it’s not a magical day for them? Do they do a job for the team? If such a standard was used Barkley does fail in that regard.

Objectively I think a move would be the best thing for him. I sense there’s too much emotion when he plays for Everton. Unlike other players like Rooney, or Gerrard who used that to lift their game with Barkley I do worry it clutters his thinking. He doesn’t look the sort who deals with expectations easily. Being just another good English talent at Spurs I think would suit him massively.

I also think the money being quoted is quite tempting. Likewise Koeman may well look at him and Lukaku and think, “which one do I build my team around” as building it around both may be too much of an ask. That’s been the key question for 18 months at least now, how do we get the best out of two erratic players? He may well look at it and want 10 lads in who are consistent and one wildcard in Lukaku? He may think Schneiderlin and Gueye give him what he wants from his midfield 2 and Romelu needs a more willing runner to help support him? Or that someone in the mould of a Mata a more classical number 10 may help Lukaku? I am speculating, but the point is Barkley is a difficult lad to just blend into a team.

I am certainly not advocating we sell Barkley but presenting a counter narrative where Koeman may feel it’s best for all parties for the deal to be done. My position on it is that there are far bigger problems and players I’d like to see go before Barkley (as I’ve listed above). This season is transitional and I would like to see Barkley given a run deeper to play in what should be his natural position. If his consistency isn’t there he can go come the summer.

I think Barry off Toffee TV summed it up best. That if Barkley and Lukaku are sold, it won’t necessarily be the selling that will be the most disappointing, but it will be not giving them better players around them or a striker to help Rom. For Ross I’ll be disappointed if we sell him having not given him a chance to play deeper. When Fergusan was sold he rightly made the point what disappointed him was he never got the chance to play with proper wingers. I hope we use this 6 months as an opportunity for Barkley to showcase his talent and make a call come the summer.
 
The difficulty with Barkley is where he fits on our list of priorities. We currently have lots of players who can go tomorrow- (Gibson, Niasse, Kone, Garbutt) and then some more who to varying degrees have done ok for us, but in the medium term don’t have much of a future here. They may well try hard, but unless there is a big upturn you can’t imagine them playing for a top 6 team- (Oviedo, Cleverley, Lennon, Deulofeu, Mirallas, Jagielka, Galloway, Browning, with possibly McCarthy, Besic, Barry being added to the list).

Then at the other end you have lads who look good enough either now or young players you imagine stand a chance of being given time to get to that full potential. Lukaku, Gueye, Bolasie, Williams, Coleman, Baines. The issue for me with Ross is, he currently doesn’t fit either group. At his best he may well be our most important player, when he’s poor though there is little to separate him from say Mirallas.

I imagine if you coaches Barkley within a week you’d probably find 2 contradictory things out. 1 He is hugely talented, 2) he doesn’t “blend in” well to the way a squad plays. On the first point the lad can pretty much do everything. He can dribble, jink past people, pass short and long, tackle quite well, shoot and is not bad in the air. He has all the attributes to run a game from Central midfield.

Yet at the same time, if you take a lad like Lennon, or Cleverley, generally they never dominate or boss games, but they do fit into a side well. They don’t need the team to be built around them. Ross seems the opposite. Unless the team is set up to maximise his ability he struggles a bit. You move him position and he can be anonymous. I remember Lampard saying, people should judge him on his worst games, not his best. We all have days where everything goes right for us, but what is a player like in the other 8 or 9 games when it’s not a magical day for them? Do they do a job for the team? If such a standard was used Barkley does fail in that regard.

Objectively I think a move would be the best thing for him. I sense there’s too much emotion when he plays for Everton. Unlike other players like Rooney, or Gerrard who used that to lift their game with Barkley I do worry it clutters his thinking. He doesn’t look the sort who deals with expectations easily. Being just another good English talent at Spurs I think would suit him massively.

I also think the money being quoted is quite tempting. Likewise Koeman may well look at him and Lukaku and think, “which one do I build my team around” as building it around both may be too much of an ask. That’s been the key question for 18 months at least now, how do we get the best out of two erratic players? He may well look at it and want 10 lads in who are consistent and one wildcard in Lukaku? He may think Schneiderlin and Gueye give him what he wants from his midfield 2 and Romelu needs a more willing runner to help support him? Or that someone in the mould of a Mata a more classical number 10 may help Lukaku? I am speculating, but the point is Barkley is a difficult lad to just blend into a team.

I am certainly not advocating we sell Barkley but presenting a counter narrative where Koeman may feel it’s best for all parties for the deal to be done. My position on it is that there are far bigger problems and players I’d like to see go before Barkley (as I’ve listed above). This season is transitional and I would like to see Barkley given a run deeper to play in what should be his natural position. If his consistency isn’t there he can go come the summer.

I think Barry off Toffee TV summed it up best. That if Barkley and Lukaku are sold, it won’t necessarily be the selling that will be the most disappointing, but it will be not giving them better players around them or a striker to help Rom. For Ross I’ll be disappointed if we sell him having not given him a chance to play deeper. When Fergusan was sold he rightly made the point what disappointed him was he never got the chance to play with proper wingers. I hope we use this 6 months as an opportunity for Barkley to showcase his talent and make a call come the summer.


I'm going to bookmark this for when I retire in 35 years, looks like a cracking read
 
Shocking to see the sheer amount of hatred he gets from our home supporters.

I feel that if Spurs were to come in for him, we should sell for the benefit of his career - despite the fact that I still believe that he's still one of our best players.
 

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