Ross Barkley

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Telegraph reporting that Spurs will push their interest with a bid for Ross.

It's gutting knowing that if he left we'll realise what we've lost. Stones leaving wasn't a big deal because it was good money for a luxury, but Barkley means everything to the club.

We need him to succeed as part of our team. Maybe Koeman (his "honesty" quotes this week) has realised his approach/comments on Ross were a bit harsh?
 
Deco said:
Telegraph reporting that Spurs will push their interest with a bid for Ross.

It's gutting knowing that if he left we'll realise what we've lost. Stones leaving wasn't a big deal because it was good money for a luxury, but Barkley means everything to the club.

We need him to succeed as part of our team. Maybe Koeman (his "honesty" quotes this week) has realised his approach/comments on Ross were a bit harsh?
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Ross needs one final chance alongside better players to prove his worth. If at that point he doesn't show signs of living up to the hype then it's time to sell. I think we should hold onto him for now though.
 
everton2004 said:
Ross needs one final chance alongside better players to prove his worth. If at that point he doesn't show signs of living up to the hype then it's time to sell. I think we should hold onto him for now though.
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He needs other players around him who can create, and more legs in midfield.

Last season he got 4 goals and 4 assists in the 3 months that Geri was starting every match. Once Geri got dropped in January, in the entirety of the rest of the season Ross only scored two penalties against Newcastle and got one assist against Bournemouth.

It's clear the difference made with him when we have two of Gana/McCarthy/Davies in midfield with him too - players who have the energy to move, make space and push up with him.
 
Everton Musings said:
Hello, Sir.

Forgive me, I'm the mortal who took his time to write something I thought would be interesting for others to read. I've now made the mistake of creating this account just to reply to your message. More fool me. But allow me to counter the points you raise, as follows:

"Anyway, it's complete claptrap - any criticism is waved away with a 'if somebody thinks this then they are wrong!' Without anything to really back it up. Its very lazy writing that is completely lacking any merit."

It is claptrap, you're absolutely right on that front. No criticism is "waved away", mind. I say in my opinion, it's wrong to say he's "s***e", and I then articulate as best I can (which is admittedly not very good) the reasons why I think he is't "s***e". For the avoidance of doubt, the reasons I give, are a mixture of my opinions (such as tactics, coaching, poor play around him, etc)- which you're absolutely entitled to disagree with (personally, I think you'd be daft not to call me up on my nonsense, but one or two have found themselves in agreement with a bit of nuance, where it comes to RB). In terms of 'backing it up' I'd like to refer to the following points in my bit of nonsense:

1) "It was just last season when across Europe’s top 5 leagues, only three midfielders 23 and under scored more goals than him, only three got more assists than him, and only five played more key passes than him, all while playing in a side that finished in the bottom half of the premier league: the kinds of company he’s keeping there? The likes of Pogba, Draxler, Sané, Alli, Jesé, Halilovic and Denis Suarez (amongst others)"

2) "It’s just over five years since Barkley made his Everton debut, and at the time of writing this, he’s scored 18 league goals in 129 appearances. In the first 129 league games of Yaya Toure’s career, he scored 9. I resent the comparison being made by some to Steven Gerrard, because I don’t see the similarities in their game the way I do to Toure, but in Gerrard’s opening 129 league games, he managed 14. Barkley has done better than his recent form would have you remember. And Toure was playing in Belgium, Ukraine and Greece, in that time"

Pls feel free to counter either of these points, as above. I look forward to it, in fact. Because might I suggest if you can't, then it is in fact you being lazy and writing something without merit?



"And then there's the errors. My god the errors. There's a brief flicker of 'maybe his mental side isn't good enough but there's nothing he can do!' - except erm.. yes he can. He strikes me as a lad that isn't willing to deal with his short comings - that wouldn't sit down with a coach and work out a strategy to become a stronger player. He could sit with a sports psychologist and work on coping mechanisms and not getting flustered when things aren't going his way, but no, still the same nonsense from him as five years ago. It does make you wonder if Koemans so publicly with his criticism as he's just not willing to listen in private. Then there's nonsense about how of course he doesn't always see the right pass because he's busy playing football - ignoring the fact that if he truly is an elite player (as in Prem and above) then he needs to have that in his wheelhouse."

Perhaps you missed the part that I said "He may get help through the club, he may not- I don’t know" and I, sir, do not know. So I won't pretend to know whether he does or not, and I'm not willing to speculate as you have: "He strikes me as a lad that isn't willing to deal with his short comings - that wouldn't sit down with a coach and work out a strategy to become a stronger player". Perhaps you could evidence your reasons for this snippet? Back it up with something really tangible that we can all agree on? Because I don't know him. I'd dread to think you'd right something like that without merit?

Please direct me to any point in this article where I've described Barkley as an "elite player (as in Prem and above)"? Although by your own definition, he must be elite, if he's playing in the prem? Or have I read that wrong? Pls advise.




"More glossing over of stuff as we are told that Barkley is great when he has acres of space. You know, that absolute commodity in football - anyone that has it can look great. Barkleys problem is that he can't make his own space either through technique or physically imposing himself. To play at an elite level he needs to be able to do that."

When you say I "gloss over stuff", you may have missed these:

1) "Barkley is a huge talent, with some massive question marks next to his game"
2) "‘He isn’t mentally strong enough’ your mate might tell you- and that may well prove to be the case- wouldn’t bet against it"
3) "he can be indecisive and hold onto the ball for too long. He can be guilty of trying too much- and some of the stick he’s taken on that front has been completely understandable"
4) "he isn’t really the kind of player who can spin his man and turn away from him… He isn’t explosive over half a yard to get past a man and create space for himself. He struggles to turn and pick a pass" oh look- I've even made the point before you there on that one. Bonus points.
5) "He can struggle when he’s got to think what’s coming next"
6) "I honestly don’t know whether Barkley will make it at Everton long term, or whether ultimately the club’s ambitions will mean he will be left behind and become a ‘what if’. A story of untold potential, component bits of a footballer that never quite meshed into the one he threatened"
7) "Neither are twitchy enough to be effective in tight spaces" I've made the point before you again. Moar bonus points, yay!
8) "Even the worst aspects of both of their games are similar: neither has a great desire to get their hands dirty and help out on the defensive side- and they both need a more disciplined, responsible midfielder to play alongside them."
9) "There’s no avoiding that ultimately, it’s up to Barkley- he has to do better, he has to give the team more"
10) "The club have to put him in a position to fulfil his potential, because he’s old enough now- but he has to give them reason to believe that’s what they should do"

Pls can you advise? I thought I'd tried to make as fair an effort to lay out his strengths and weaknesses as i could. Granted, I'm not very good at this stuff, but might I encourage you to do the same and actually write your opinions into an article? I think I'd quite like to read that.




"There's then a load of guff comparing him to other players in a throw everything at the wall and use half baked stats to make it sound good."

This is getting more difficult now, because I've genuinely no idea what you're going on about at this point, so I'm going to have to assume. OK: I say I see similarities between Barkley and Toure, and I describe why. The first point is that they have similar body shapes, and I illustrate my point by informing you of their BMIs. This is a bit where I've given my opinion, and then offered some factual information for your delectation. I describe their playing styles as similar, and you're more than entitled to disagree with me. I go on to describe how Barkley has scored 18 league goals in 129 appearances. I measure this 'success' (will you allow me that word) with the opening 129 league games of Toure's career. This should not be hard to understand why I've done this. Pls feel free to DM me on Twitter (@EvertonMusings) if you'd like me to go any further on that, because I'm losing the will to live at this point.




"Basically, it's written by someone with very little idea about what an elite footballer should be. Ross Barkley is not there"

I have no idea what I'm talking about, you should be under no illusions on that point. I feel things, I think about things, I research things, and I share them from time to time- it doesn't get nay deeper than that. As for elite, you're now starting to have me think you might be fixated on the word elite, because again: I haven't used it. I don't know what in there makes you think I think Barkley is elite, because in an article that I describe this team as "abject s***e", by my count, I say "I honestly don’t know whether Barkley will make it at Everton long term" once, and I don't use the word elite. So I'll state it explicitly, in the clearest terms possible for you: this means I'm far from certain that he's going to make it in a team that I really don't rate. Who really has the agenda here, friend? For the avoidance of doubt:

Not sure he's going to make it: 1
Elite: 0

Please do feel free to take apart my responses one by one as I have yours, and let's have a sensible discussion about what each of us have said. I look forward to it.
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@zzr45

you-got-knocked-the-f-ck-out-o.gif
 

Deco said:
Telegraph reporting that Spurs will push their interest with a bid for Ross.

It's gutting knowing that if he left we'll realise what we've lost. Stones leaving wasn't a big deal because it was good money for a luxury, but Barkley means everything to the club.

We need him to succeed as part of our team. Maybe Koeman (his "honesty" quotes this week) has realised his approach/comments on Ross were a bit harsh?
Click to expand...

If they push hard we need to sell and forget about him. Spurs right now are miles ahead of us on several levels, from the squad depth to the stadium regeneration. Yeah he might appear to be doing much better if he goes down there but right now he just looks a square peg in a round hole and it really is starting to look like by the time we get it together he will of lost more years then you can afford to waste.

Let's be honest we hardly seen a game changed by him so it's not like we will miss him, and let's not rewrite history, a lot of us did think seeing stones would be a awful move but in hindsight we have come out the best on that one, like we normally do on these things.
 
Barkley: Obviously very gifted. But selfish, still over-elaborates, still loses possession too easily, and doesn't consistently know when to release the ball. It's like he is perpetually trying to recreate that Newcastle goal.

Still, I would be gutted if we were to sell him now. Especially for as little as 30m, to Spurs. In today's transfer market, affiliation as English alone is effectively worth that much, regardless of the actual footballing merits of its beholder.

I think Koeman is right to challenge him more than Martinez did, but I'd sooner give up on Koeman than on Ross.
 

I think it's likely he will go in the summer, I can't see how we could offer him a decent enough contract based on his form this season (unless he dramatically improves). Interesting to read views on how the team doesn't play to his strengths and how he needs legs around him, I'd agree to a point, but if he really is as good as we all think he should be able to make more of an impact regardless. I would reluctantly sell based on what I've seen of him this season.
 
kenada_blue said:
So:
Moyes - who saw him as a liability and too young
Hodgeson - who played him for a large chunk of the qualifiers then bricked it at a tournament where he led the team to national embarrassment.
Martinez - Over indulged him, played his best football the 1st half of last season. Form dipped, not recovered.
Koeman - Wants him to be a workhorse.

Hes 23. The only manager to take him under his wing was Martinez.

If he was man managed by a Wenger, Jose, Poch etc you'd have a more complete player who also would surround him with better players.

If Ross was training with Carzola and Ozil every week rather than Cleverly and McCarthy, I think he'd be streets ahead now.
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So basically your saying we should sell him? Better for us seeing as he can't improve and better for him if he's TRAINING with Ozil etc... just so you know... imo... he would only be training...there is no way he would be able to force his way into a team with the quality of players your saying he needs to play with in order to improve. Which means he has needs to be at a club like ours and try break through and take his chance... something he can't seem to manage. Conclusion ? He won't make it as a top player .
 
Tel001 said:
So basically your saying we should sell him? Better for us seeing as he can't improve and better for him if he's TRAINING with Ozil etc... just so you know... imo... he would only be training...there is no way he would be able to force his way into a team with the quality of players your saying he needs to play with in order to improve. Which means he has needs to be at a club like ours and try break through and take his chance... something he can't seem to manage. Conclusion ? He won't make it as a top player .
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Morning Tel, you're a bundle of joy today.
 

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