Ross Barkley

[davek]

Have you considered that maybe Koeman has walked into a group of players who let a manager and ultimately a club down last season. A group who towards the end of Moyes and Martinez were a little pampered and he won't make the mistakes of Martinez in allowing them to throw him under the bus?

We can certainly question whether Ross Barkley is the right person to target, or whether he will benefit from such an approach but I have to say if thats his broad strategy I can't say I have an awful lot of sympathy for players who just gave up for a manager last season.

As it happens I actually think Barkley will benefit from his. Or at least he stands the chance of being becoming better, whereas the softly softly approach I do think runs the risk of him not kicking onto the next level.
I also think the honest way Koeman does things downplays the problem. It's not complicated. He was subbed as he gave the ball away too much. It's a simple message and an attainable target of what he has to do better next time.

I'm a big Barkley fan by the way. For 2/3's of last season he was as good a midfielder as any in the league. As was shown on MNF his records stands up against Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard at the same age. The point Carragher made is a good one too though, which is it is at this age all of the above 3 "kicked on". Thats what Ross needs to do now. I do think he will need to toughen up a little.

One final point in this is it is not isolated to just Barkley. Lukaku didn't start straight away when he came back. Deulofeu was dropped when he didn't work hard enough. Bolasie and Williams didn't start straight away. Funes Mori was dropped having done not a lot wrong. Holgate has also been replaced. I am not sure anyone of the above has been treated anymore unfairly than Ross. I suppose it comes back to my original point though, does this squad need a bit of tough love?

If Koeman wanted to avoid Martinez's mistake he'd have binned the barrack room lawyers who downed tools intentionally not a boy who gives his all when he takes to the pitch.

I'm sorry, he's needlessly hung a talented and good lad out to dry here...maybe because he doesn't fancy taking on a serial moaner like Mirallas or a misfiring Lukaku.

I support Koeman, but I tell you what he will store up some ill feeling if he continues a line that throws his players to the dogs like he has today. Up to him. He'll either be a roaring sucess and win stuff and thereby get away with stunts like this, or he'll be bang average or worse and players will have him out.

 

[LAToffee]

The second half would 'have worked' just as well if Mirallas had come off.

It was a totally arbitrary decision by Koeman who could have taken any one of five off. Let's not make it a master stroke.

Kev put Lukaku through for the last goal. An absolutely stunning pass.

 

[tsubaki]

If Koeman wanted to avoid Martinez's mistake he'd have binned the barrack room lawyers who downed tools intentionally not a bot who gives his all when he takes to the pitch.

I'm sorry, he's needlessly hung a talented and good lad out to dry here...maybe because he doesn't fancy taking on a serial moaner like Mirallas or a misfiring Lukaku.

I support Koeman, but I tell you what he will store up some ill feeling if he continues a line that throws his players to the dogs like he has today. Up to him. He'll either be a roaring sipuccess and win stuff and thereby get away with sty tots like this, or he'll be bang average or worse and players will have him out.

I am not the biggest fan of the Koeman appointment, but I am not sure you can say he has hung him out to dry at this point. What he probably has done is asked for a reaction from him; we will all know whether or not it worked on Saturday.

 

[tsubaki]

Kev put Lukaku through for the last goal. An absolutely stunning pass.

dave is right though - at half time it could have been him or Barkley hauled off, they were both terrible.

 

[LAToffee]

If Koeman wanted to avoid Martinez's mistake he'd have binned the barrack room lawyers who downed tools intentionally not a bot who gives his all when he takes to the pitch.

I'm sorry, he's needlessly hung a talented and good lad out to dry here...maybe because he doesn't fancy taking on a serial moaner like Mirallas or a misfiring Lukaku.

I support Koeman, but I tell you what he will store up some ill feeling if he continues a line that throws his players to the dogs like he has today. Up to him. He'll either be a roaring sucess and win stuff and thereby get away with stunts like this, or he'll be bang average or worse and players will have him out.

As long as he continues to get results, no one will care. We've had a cracking start to the season. We're third. Goal difference off second. And we have a run of games that give us the opportunity to really kick on. Let's not moan when things are going well, eh? We all know there will be plenty of time to gripe in the course of the season.

 

[Neiler]

Disagree, this exactly what Barkley needs after being pandered to by soft Martinez, his development stalled, I'm all for the occasional boot to kick stars his development and growth.

It's life anyone who has had any success in life has expierenced the same thing.

Love Ross mind, take your medicine lad, let's see what your made of on Sat.

 

[LAToffee]

dave is right though - at half time it could have been him or Barkley hauled off, they were both terrible.

Fair enough but surely we need to give Kev credit for a strong second half performance? And credit the manager for the way he changed things up.

 

[davek]

I am not the biggest fan of the Koeman appointment, but I am not sure you can say he has hung him out to dry at this point. What he probably has done is asked for a reaction from him; we will all know whether or not it worked on Saturday.

....and that couldn't be done in private at FF why.......?

 

[davek]

As long as he continues to get results, no one will care. We've had a cracking start to the season. We're third. Goal difference off second. And we have a run of games that give us the opportunity to really kick on. Let's not moan when things are going well, eh? We all know there will be plenty of time to gripe in the course of the season.

That's a good point actually (the timing of it). If Koeman had done this when we were struggling you could say "gutsy to do that when things aren't going well on the pitch." However, it feels like he's using a bit of capital built up over the past month to lay down the law to a kid who hasn't got the seniority to hit back.

As said, in other posts: when Lukaku was stinking the place out where was the public bollocking?

 

[Mickey]

Oh Dave hahahaha

 

[scratchnsurf]

Barkley was awful and deserved to be subbed.

As for being hung out to dry in public, Barkley's comments to the Times over his lack of playing time at the Euros started this media narrative about his form.

It wasn't so long ago that he was given the armband by Koeman; carrot and stick both being used effectively in my opinion.

 

[Kev50]

If Koeman wanted to avoid Martinez's mistake he'd have binned the barrack room lawyers who downed tools intentionally not a boy who gives his all when he takes to the pitch.

I'm sorry, he's needlessly hung a talented and good lad out to dry here...maybe because he doesn't fancy taking on a serial moaner like Mirallas or a misfiring Lukaku.

I support Koeman, but I tell you what he will store up some ill feeling if he continues a line that throws his players to the dogs like he has today. Up to him. He'll either be a roaring sucess and win stuff and thereby get away with stunts like this, or he'll be bang average or worse and players will have him out.

I have to agree with some of this. The players DID down tools, and he has hung a sensitive but talented lad put to dry. I hope it works out, if it doesn't well all be going over this period in a couple of years

 

[Groucho]

Sorry no don't agree that he is overrated by us or that he has just lost form.

He is nowhere near the player that his talent demands.

He is a wonderfully technically gifted player who , for whatever reason , does not seem to have a work ethic or desire to really be the best that he can be.

Certainly true that hard work is still required even by those who are talented.

 

[tsubaki]

....and that couldn't be done in private at FF why.......?

What does Koeman gain from doing that, though? Now he has Barkley with (hopefully) a determination to answer his criticism on the pitch, and a squad whose forward players all know that they will have to be decent on Saturday or he will get his chance to take his place (their place) back.

 

[Saint Domingo]

That's a good point actually (the timing of it). If Koeman had done this when we were struggling you could say "gutsy to do that when things aren't going well on the pitch." However, it feels like he's using a bit of capital built up over the past month to lay down the law to a kid who hasn't got the seniority to hit back.

As said, in other posts: when Lukaku was stinking the place out where was the public bollocking?

It's called man management Dave. We haven't seen it for 3 seasons. Lukaku needs the love, getting tough with him does nowt, get him fit, tell him he's the best and he bangs them in. Start laying the law down and he's pencilling in the next international break and is writing a script for his dad. Barkley on the other hand can be told he's phenomenal as many times as he wants but it doesn't make any difference. He needs a kick up the backside. It's not for the media to do it, that has been disgraceful but it's well within Koeman's gift to demand more from Ross.