Ross Barkley

[davek]

Completely agree it's not as significant as an assist but that's not to say it should be disregarded, just that it should be taken in context.

It's not quite as vague as you suggest though, as assists are a subset of chances created, and an assist could be someone lumping the ball in from a corner and attacker gets his head on it and scores = assist.

As i said before someone could have no assists one game, just due to the striker having a mare. Not to say they didn't have a great game.

Same as dribbles. Some of them could be dribbling out from the full back position. Doesn't mean anything in isolation, in terms of someone's attacking creativity

Yes, I agree. It's not perfect. But usually more exact in demonstrating value to a team.

 

[davek]

I disagree that Koeman is making her m less exciting to watch. But if you are correct then I think it does Ross a disservice to think that he has been irrevocably damaged (or devalued) through obeying instructions.

Although widely detested (by me too), Gerrard changed his playing style regularly to help his team and to suit his respective manager's style. Ironically, his style went from being a string puller to being a second striker (the opposite trajectory to Ross) and then back again at the end.

Ross is a great player who can do whatever he is asked (certainly now at least). If Koeman wants him to pull strings at the moment and not go on so many headless chicken runs then so be it.

He can also not sign his contract, keep doing was he's told and playing ok, and find a new club where he can express himself a bit more without seeing his game being constantly pulled apart.

That could well happen now.

 

[davek]

He will still be defending higher up though, your first defender is your centre forward. They might not cross the halfway line back into our half, but they're still part if the overall defensive unit.
What RK has put into Barkley is where to be and what to do in that situation.

He's shifted his view on Barkley 180 degrees since Christmas to fit in with the new reality that - with Bolasie out the way and the need to give this team their head to pass it about a bit - Barkley in a free role is crucial to that change up in approach.

He's opportunistic.

 

[Abraders]

If he wasn't called out, he'd still be playing rubbish today. He responded to the criticism well.

Can't see him leaving

 

[Amw79]

Yes, I agree. It's not perfect. But usually more exact in demonstrating value to a team.

Disagree mate. Think if you accept one as a measure, have to accept the usefulness of the other, as one is a subset of the other. Better to look at both, and get a fuller picture with more context.

And dribbles too mate, don't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Imo, Koeman is beginning to turn Barkley into an identikit player. He's been handed a rough diamond in Ross Barkley and handed us back a piece of polished glass instead.

No doubt that no mark Southgate will bend to the demands of the media and allow Barkley redux into his drab England set up and a legion of people will be crowing about it being his career put back on track through greater discipline yada yada yada.

He's been handed a player who's natural game is to receive the ball on the half turn and run at players and make goals. He still does that and more, I fail to see the problem

There's only two measures that matter: goals and assists. The rest is voodoo.

Why have you been going on about him going on fewer dribbles then? As an aside to this, yes he does it less, but is more successful when he does. He's being coached to make the right decision when necessary, not stifle his creativity

 

[bluestevon]

He can also not sign his contract, keep doing was he's told and playing ok, and find a new club where he can express himself a bit more without seeing his game being constantly pulled apart.

That could well happen now.

Yes mate someone like mourinho or pocchetino would let him run free and express himself with nary a thought for defensive duties...

 

[Parkender]

Does anyone actually know Davek? Like really know him? Gone for a pint with him? Ive never read anyone type as much nonsense and seemingly go against what everyone else can see. In every single thread, if someone says black, he says white. Obviously football can be a game of opinions but this div is just on a wind up.

And as for that plum ringing talksport, what games are these dopes watching?

 

[bluestevon]

Does anyone actually know Davek? Like really know him? Gone for a pint with him? Ive never read anyone type as much nonsense and seemingly go against what everyone else can see. In every single thread, if someone says black, he says white. Obviously football can be a game of opinions but this div is just on a wind up.

And as for that plum ringing talksport, what games are these dopes watching?

The mods and various posters have always couched for him as a true blue mate, not everyone shares the same opinion, hell America elected trump

 

[Goat]

Does anyone actually know Davek? Like really know him? Gone for a pint with him? Ive never read anyone type as much nonsense and seemingly go against what everyone else can see. In every single thread, if someone says black, he says white. Obviously football can be a game of opinions but this div is just on a wind up.

And as for that plum ringing talksport, what games are these dopes watching?

Ive never met Dave, but I have engaged with him on this very forum for the best part of almost 8 years.

I can assure you he is very much a passionate Everton fan, his views are slightly off-centre, but never doubt his dedication to this football club.

 

[Furey1878]

As if Ross would leave

 

[Parkender]

Fair do's. He does seem on a constant wind up

 

[joey_macmo]

every damn thread......

 

[davek]

Disagree mate. Think if you accept one as a measure, have to accept the usefulness of the other, as one is a subset of the other. Better to look at both, and get a fuller picture with more context.

And dribbles too mate, don't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water.

Context in this instance is just muddying the waters. Assists = success; Chances Created = success + failure.

You want to say that a player can be considered good because the vast majority of moves they were involved in ended in failure.

 

[davek]

He's been handed a player who's natural game is to receive the ball on the half turn and run at players and make goals. He still does that and more, I fail to see the problem



Why have you been going on about him going on fewer dribbles then? As an aside to this, yes he does it less, but is more successful when he does. He's being coached to make the right decision when necessary, not stifle his creativity

Well, you just contradicted your own first point with your second, so that answers that.