Ronald Koeman discussion

davek · January 8, 2017

mill said:
Come on mate, you can't compare like that.

Other teams have strengthened, players get older, we've had a regime shift.

You can't tell me the likes of Barry, baines, jagielka etc should be operating at the same level as they were 3 seasons ago.

They did ok at the start of the season IIRC. No one was doubting their ability either at the end of last season.

They have fallen off in terms of ability to retain the ball alarmingly. The manager is responsible for that.

davek · January 8, 2017

rochdaleblue said:
The 'same squad' that got us 11th the last two seasons.

Yes, which is why Martinez had to go, remember? He had to go because the group of players we had were being wasted by thay previous manager. Isn't that what the majority view was just 8 months ago or so?

boris · January 8, 2017

rochdaleblue said:
The 'same squad' that got us 11th the last two seasons.

Whilst the manager prioritised a cup win last season and tried to win the Europa Lge the year before, he openly admitted this himself.

I assume Koeman is focussing in the 7th place trophy.

Dirty Dutch · January 8, 2017

boris said:
Klopp put a stamp on his team quite quickly and took them to 2 finals.

It certainly hasn't took Koeman a year to ruin our attack, it happened after the first month.

Because that Liverpool was better than we are now. And he finished 8th with that team, what a great job!!

Dutch Toffee · January 8, 2017

Pat Sharp said:
Yes, I can see that point of view, Just unsure what he thinks it will achieve, Its not like he's going to get 10 new players this window, He's still got to work with a large number of the current squad

That's why he should be given at least two more transfer windows, before any final judgement imo. 'If' we finish 7th this season with this squad he'll have done a very good job imo. From next season on he should be under pressure to perform. Expecting better football and getting a lot closer to the top 6.

Dirty Dutch · January 8, 2017

boris said:
Whilst the manager prioritised a cup win last season and tried to win the Europa Lge the year before, he openly admitted this himself.

Haha you really believe that.....

boris · January 8, 2017

Dirty Dutch said:
Because that Liverpool was better than we are now. And he finished 8th with that team, what a great job!!

His squad wasn't good enough to fight in 3 fronts, it was able to focus on 2 competitions and that's what he did.

Our season is over on the 7th Jan as we've focussed on none. This squad was capable of beating both Norwich and Leicester at home.

mill · January 8, 2017

davek said:
They did ok at the start of the season IIRC. No one was doubting their ability either at the end of last season.

They have fallen off in terms of ability to retain the ball alarmingly. The manager is responsible for that.

Plenty were doubting their ability. A lot were doubting their attitude. Expectations were raised after the season we finished fifth but that's been proven to be an outlier in hindsight. The squad is limited and has been overrated for a long time.

I think Barkley is a good analogy for where we are at. Has the ability to hold their own in isolation but lack the consistency to be truly great.

We have a couple of very good players but no excellent players.

And their ability to retain possession hasn't necessarily fallen off (the gueye sitter and build up from the other week being an example of the team playing football). It's just not something they are asked to do as much. We play more direct nowadays.

A style of play that you could argue is much more efficient in this league.

hallamblue · January 8, 2017

davek said:
Yes, which is why Martinez had to go, remember? He had to go because the group of players we had were being wasted by thay previous manager. Isn't that what the majority view was just 8 months ago or so?

He had to go because we could contrive to lose a game from any position and our defence was a joke. I'm not denying we play turgid rubbish a lot of the time now but we aren't keystone cops bad.

LAToffee · January 8, 2017

Dirty Dutch said:
Haha you really believe that.....

I do. And that was a huge part of the problem with Martinez. He got obsessed with any trophy over progress in the league. In a weird way, he read the fan base and tried to pander to it. Unsuccessfully as it turned out.

Dirty Dutch · January 8, 2017

boris said:
His squad wasn't good enough to fight in 3 fronts, it was able to focus on 2 competitions and that's what he did.

Our season is over on the 7th Jan as we've focussed on none. This squad was capable of beating both Norwich and Leicester at home.

No he didnt. That result has nothing to do with the manager. Yes we were capable of winning but with this squad we're also capable of loting against them.

boris · January 8, 2017

Dirty Dutch said:
Haha you really believe that.....

I don't have to believe it, it was quite obvious that what he did.

No embarrassment missing it tho Dutch, you can look for it in future. Managers target certain competitions, that's football.

hktoffee · January 8, 2017

davek said:
The squad that got 5th a couple of seasons back. Now we should expect no more than 7th from them.

Brilliant.

Why did you keep banging on his first season while completely ignore 11th and 12th, 75 league games? You are like a propaganda machine of RM, making like he was some kind of success here in fact he is/was a terrible manager and took the club backwards after Moyes had gone.

moyes cardy · January 8, 2017

hktoffee said:
Why did you keep banging on his first season while completely ignore 11th and 12th, 75 league games? You are like a propaganda machine of RM, making like he was some kind of success here in fact he is/was a terrible manager and took the club backwards after Moyes had gone.

I can only think Davek is winding you up.

LAToffee · January 8, 2017

hktoffee said:
Why did you keep banging on his first season while completely ignore 11th and 12th, 75 league games? You are like a propaganda machine of RM, making like he was some kind of success here in fact he is/was a terrible manager and took the club backwards after Moyes had gone.

At this stage last season, when nearly every member of this forum was baying for Martinez's blood, we had 27 points and we were still in the FA cup (we got knocked out in the Semi). We are currently on 30 points and out of both cups. RK gets time, but I don't see much progress. Here's hoping!!