Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

I'd prefer the game at bournmouth last season to what we produced against Southampton though. It was absolutely dreadful

That wasn't my point though.

My point was that this squad of players is so mentally fragile that they never recovered from that game.

It happened the season before as well, on the exact same weekend at the end of November.

We threw away the lead vs Spurs despite being in good form.

We never recovered.

 

[blue to the bone]

That wasn't my point though.

My point was that this squad of players is so mentally fragile that they never recovered from that game.

It happened the season before as well, on the exact same weekend at the end of November.

We threw away the lead vs Spurs despite being in good form.

We never recovered.

Possibly mate. But they do not seem motivated at all. And either does the manager. He doesn't look arsed.. compare him to conte or klopp for instance . They look like it means an awful lot. Koeman don't. Now inside maybe he's absolutely fuming but if he showed passion on the line maybe it would help

 

[BlueToff]

Possibly mate. But they do not seem motivated at all. And either does the manager. He doesn't look arsed.. compare him to conte or klopp for instance . They look like it means an awful lot. Koeman don't. Now inside maybe he's absolutely fuming but if he showed passion on the line maybe it would help

If he'd have been showing loads at any of his previous clubs but not here then yeh, it'd be a concern.

It's just how he is though. He keeps his cool.

 

[blue to the bone]

If he'd have been showing loads at any of his previous clubs but not here then yeh, it'd be a concern.

It's just how he is though. He keeps his cool.

I haven't been impressed mate. Players aren't showin it either which for me is a bad reflection on the manager. I'd sell all bar about 4 of them but I still think if the manager can't motivate them he's not doin his job right either

 

[BlueToff]

I haven't been impressed mate. Players aren't showin it either which for me is a bad reflection on the manager. I'd sell all bar about 4 of them but I still think if the manager can't motivate them he's not doin his job right either

I don't think it's about motivation though. They're just crap. They're bottlers - which goes back to my original point.

Koeman's mistakes have come from not changing things - probably because he's expecting a reaction from his first-teamers, but it won't come.

 

[Lanolin]

That wasn't my point though.

My point was that this squad of players is so mentally fragile that they never recovered from that game.

It happened the season before as well, on the exact same weekend at the end of November.

We threw away the lead vs Spurs despite being in good form.

We never recovered.

I've said this before but I just can't agree with that analysis at all.

Our problems started way, way before that Bournemouth game. We'd been generally awful for over a year at that point. Before Bournemouth last year we'd laboured to a home draw with Watford, been taken to extra time by Barnsley and been absolutely leathered all over the gaff at home to united. 13 games in we hadn't won back to back games.

We actually didn't lose the 3 games straight after Bournemouth and only lost 2 of the next 11, so it didn't seem to affect them that much at all in reality. They were rubbish before that game and rubbish after it, it just happened to be the game that opened some people's eyes to our problems.

 

[blue to the bone]

I don't think it's about motivation though. They're just crap. They're bottlers - which goes back to my original point.

Koeman's mistakes have come from not changing things - probably because he's expecting a reaction from his first-teamers, but it won't come.

Then maybe throw in some of the younger players. No point sticking with the players who aren't doin it.

 

[BlueToff]

Then maybe throw in some of the younger players. No point sticking with the players who aren't doin it.

I agree on that point.

A change in system is the key thing - he now must realise that.

And, one or two changes in personnel.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if we went 3-4-3 on Sunday, with Holgate coming into the defence.

 

[blue to the bone]

I agree on that point.

A change in system is the key thing - he now must realise that.

And, one or two changes in personnel.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if we went 3-4-3 on Sunday, with Holgate coming into the defence.

Flying over for this and not too excited about it. But if I see the team sheet with changes made and a couple of the youngsters playin I would be happier. Til it's over anyway!

 

[Ashtonian]

Just thinking out loud here.

The past three managers have played very similar formations and tactics here right? moyes was more defensive , Martinez more attacking and koeman in the middle. But either way similar formations and largely similar players in those positions.

So is the simple answer change it? You read so many times of players these days being reinvented in positions, valencia and moses wing backs, milner left back, in changes of systems thst actually work and get results. So perhaps that is what is fundamentally wrong? the same players in the same formations and no chance of a change bar switching a winger from one side to the next

 

[Chill125]

Hesitation is the team's enemy, Koeman has to tell them that despite the relegation form we are presently showing we have only fallen to 10th, remind the boys of our opening season form and we shall be back in business.

 

[MACCA75]

Just thinking out loud here.

The past three managers have played very similar formations and tactics here right? moyes was more defensive , Martinez more attacking and koeman in the middle. But either way similar formations and largely similar players in those positions.

So is the simple answer change it? You read so many times of players these days being reinvented in positions, valencia and moses wing backs, milner left back, in changes of systems thst actually work and get results. So perhaps that is what is fundamentally wrong? the same players in the same formations and no chance of a change bar switching a winger from one side to the next

I'm sick of 4-2-3-1 like. I remember Moyes years ago was struggling, so he changed the formation to a 4-4-2 against Bolton (Howard scored). We got beat 2-1, but primarily because he played Neville and Heitinga as the two midfielders. Was very much Moyes saying 'here's your f**king 4-4-2'

Anyway. Bring 4-4-2 back for me.

 

[BurnhamBlue]

The first thing Koeman had to address, was the fitness levels of the players. They basically had 3 years off.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I'm sick of 4-2-3-1 like. I remember Moyes years ago was struggling, so he changed the formation to a 4-4-2 against Bolton (Howard scored). We got beat 2-1, but primarily because he played Neville and Heitinga as the two midfielders. Was very much Moyes saying 'here's your f**king 4-4-2'

Anyway. Bring 4-4-2 back for me.

Not for me, a 442 these days needs at least one centre forward who will run all day and at least one of the centre mids doing the same

Don't think we have the players to play this system properly

343 maybe or even 352, but it's pretty difficult to pull off a 442 properly nowadays

Personally I'm not remotely arsed what formation we play if it gets results and this was the same under Martinez and Moyes

Moyes was always 4411, Martinez was always 4231 (although TBF to El Loco, he varied the shape much more than he is given credit for, it just didn't work so nobody ever paid any attention), Koeman says it's important for a team to have a preferred system and ours is either 433 or 4231 depending on the opposition.

I personally don't think just changing the shape will address the issues currently, as Martinez found out

 

[BlueToff]

Not for me, a 442 these days needs at least one centre forward who will run all day and at least one of the centre mids doing the same

Don't think we have the players to play this system properly

343 maybe or even 352, but it's pretty difficult to pull off a 442 properly nowadays

Personally I'm not remotely arsed what formation we play if it gets results and this was the same under Martinez and Moyes

Moyes was always 4411, Martinez was always 4231 (although TBF to El Loco, he varied the shape much more than he is given credit for, it just didn't work so nobody ever paid any attention), Koeman says it's important for a team to have a preferred system and ours is either 433 or 4231 depending on the opposition.

I personally don't think just changing the shape will address the issues currently, as Martinez found out

Yeh at the end of the day it's down to the players.

But I do think this formation is just so stale that one little switch at least throws the opposition off.

When was the last time we actually started with two forwards?