Ronald Koeman discussion

[Zatara]

OK mate.

Bolasie is not a top 6 winger.

Baines and Coleman past their best in the sense that they were better 4-5 years ago.

Del is over rated by us

Barry is 36 ffs

Lukaku can't score if no one creates for him

Ross has under performed for 3 years now

Kev probably affected by not being played for 2 years and probably needs a new challenge elsewhere

Gueye isn't world class, his job is to win the ball not control the midfield

Jags has gone past his best

Williams been fine so far.

How many of those players are moyes signings as well? 2 different managers later and you expect half of them to still be fantastic for us? Some are past their best, others aren't really that good.

When you say 'Gueye isnt world class' and that 'its his job to win the ball not control the midfield'.

Did you not rate Makelele as world class?

Not saying Gueye is that level but hes certainly top draw.

 

[deipnosophist]

Everton is a pretty piss -poor team...not much more to be said.
I watched my All Blacks get hammered on the playing pitch by Ireland this morning. Result? NZ 21 Ireland 9.

Everton lacks balls. They're weak, they're pusillanimous, they're frightened. They are everything the All Blacks aren't.

They annoy the f*** out of me.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Everton is a pretty piss -poor team

*Are.

 

[deipnosophist]

*Are.

arsed

 

[ToffeeTim]

Everton is a pretty piss -poor team...not much more to be said.
I watched my All Blacks get hammered on the playing pitch by Ireland this morning. Result? NZ 21 Ireland 9.

Everton lacks balls. They're weak, they're pusillanimous, they're frightened. They are everything the All Blacks aren't.

They annoy the f*** out of me.

Least we aren't nasty cheats who respond to a loss by concussing all the oppositions best players and by pressuring the referee into turning a blind eye to the snidery. X

 

[deipnosophist]

I have been reminded by the mods to moderate my language.
I apologise for transgression.

This team I support though makes me livid.

And what really annoys me?...next week they'll display similar testosteroneless ineptitude that we saw today.
I have had a gutsful of 'craven royal blue'.
Grow a pair Everton....

 

[JonS]

Despite my frustrations with the players I like Koemans reactions to our play (you can tell he is fuming when we are) and his post-match comments always seem honest and accurate, which is why we should finish this season higher under him than under Martinez.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Despite my frustrations with the players I like Koemans reactions to our play (you can tell he is fuming when we are) and his post-match comments always seem honest and accurate, which is why we should finish this season higher under him than under Martinez.

That would be all well and good if he actively made bold decisions on the back of them comments.

Jagielka, Steklenberg and a few others just walk into the team despite horrendous performances.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I think our biggest problem is there's a real atmosphere of apathy throughout the squad that no manager can fix, a sort of ingrained belief that they're not good enough to be challenging for the top. It's only a personnel change that will fix it, players who actually believe in themselves and their qualities, and have the hunger to succeed.

This lot don't have the belief or the hunger for me, and that's not something any manager can change. Like a horse that's been badly spooked, they need taking out back and shooting. Or selling, preferably selling.

 

[JonS]

That would be all well and good if he actively made bold decisions on the back of them comments.

Jagielka, Steklenberg and a few others just walk into the team despite horrendous performances.

It's about not being knee jerk though. We drop Jags and then Funes has a nightmare game and we are back where we started.

Similarly with Steks and Robles.

For me he is proving more willing to make bold / ruthless decisions in dropping or taking off players when needed.

I just wish he would give the youngsters a chance - maybe one of them could replace Jags

 

[deipnosophist]

I think our biggest problem is there's a real atmosphere of apathy throughout the squad that no manager can fix, a sort of ingrained belief that they're not good enough to be challenging for the top. It's only a personnel change that will fix it, players who actually believe in themselves and their qualities, and have the hunger to succeed.

This lot don't have the belief or the hunger for me, and that's not something any manager can change. Like a horse that's been badly spooked, they need taking out back and shooting. Or selling, preferably selling.

Good post. But Everton is a family club. Results are secondary to the warm and fuzzies of being part of 'the people's club'.
My view? Results are all that matter in the end. You can stick your warm and fuzzies where the sun don't shine...

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Good post. But Everton is a family club. Results are secondary to the warm and fuzzies of being part of 'the people's club'.
My view? Results are all that matter in the end. You can stick your warm and fuzzies where the sun don't shine...

I've been very loyal to players my whole life supporting Everton, and I'm definitely guilty of overrating some of our own. That's a good quality to a degree, but not to this extent.

I've passed the stage of caring about the players now, we've won one pot in my lifetime and I was too young to remember it. I want success for the club now regardless of who is pulling on the shirt.

If we finally start winning things I might start being loyal to players again.

 

[toffee matt]

 

[JonS]

I think our biggest problem is there's a real atmosphere of apathy throughout the squad that no manager can fix, a sort of ingrained belief that they're not good enough to be challenging for the top. It's only a personnel change that will fix it, players who actually believe in themselves and their qualities, and have the hunger to succeed.

This lot don't have the belief or the hunger for me, and that's not something any manager can change. Like a horse that's been badly spooked, they need taking out back and shooting. Or selling, preferably selling.

I had hoped that we wouldn't need to get rid of them all to get the belief and attitude you mention. Some of these (Jags, Baines, Seamus) showed more of the qualities you mention under Moyes than they do now. And I still have the belief that Geri and Ross could be world class if they could somehow get their act together.

If Koeman can't get the best out of them all though then I agree with you and would get rid of them all!

 

[Ashtonian]

What on earth are you babbling on about?

When have I mentioned league position? When have I said we should be higher in the league

I am talking about performances, I am asking why Koeman can't get this group playing better football than we are seeing

Mabye they are just overall crap players who we convinced ourselves are better when we were optimistic and now 3 years later we are seeing just how good they really are?

Perhaps when koeman can get his Southampton team ripped apart for 2 years and still get results that the issue may be just the quality of the players we actually have.

That's not the point. Our squad, regardless of what excuses people may make, should be able to perform against the likes of Swansea et al.

The issue is that for whatever reason they're not and our league position cloaks how tepid and lacklustre some of our performances have been.

We're struggling to perform against the lower half teams let alone the top six - that's a concern which should be addressed.

As above, perhaps that's just a example of how bad some of these players are then. most of the squad have had easy tickets for years now, in fact very few players at the club have ever had to play for their place. So perhaps, the fact they aren't that good combined with the fact they all have starting positions sewn up without trying is the reason why we aren't getting performances.

No matter how badly they play, baines Coleman jags Barry Barkley Bolasie even lukaku all have their place guaranteed

When you say 'Gueye isnt world class' and that 'its his job to win the ball not control the midfield'.

Did you not rate Makelele as world class?

Not saying Gueye is that level but hes certainly top draw.

Perfect example of what I am talking about. over rating our players and then 2 years later wondering why we are mid table. del is seen as the best winger never to get a game. Ross can't do no wrong in some eyes etc

Mccarthy had the sake treatment for years and now suddenly a scapegoat.

How about stop talking our players up until we actually get somewhere first eh?