Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

....there's more than one way to skin a cat. I dare say whoever goes into Barcelona will have his own way of playing. As I've said about RK, his Everton team is work in progress and even this season we are seeing improvements. You have a fixed view of his team model which I think is unfair. He'll need a few transfer windows to bring in who he wants to play the way he wants, then you can define the tactical model.

I dont. I can see that in the past few weeks - and as a result of the Bolaise injury and Koeman finally playing to the technical strengths of the players he inherited - the playing style has changed from the very predictable long ball out to the flanks to something more bearable to watch. The interesting question for me is whether with Bolaise back and any additions he makes this summer the style reverts more to his second season at Southampton (which was the way he set up at Feyenoord) and there is more of an emphasis on getting a lot of balls into the box for a big bustling forward. I suppose Lukaku coming or going might influence that decision too.

 

[MikeH72]

The players have switched back to the style of football they knew and remembered how to play from 2014 lads. Even the players that weren't here then, which is like half the squad.

 

[davek]

He's turned them into CL regulars? - is that by managing to qualify for it once so far mate - thats a really bizarre measurement of regular like.

Last season and this season...that cements them as a CL club when you add it to the previous occasions they've reached top 4 recently.

Koeman inherrited the framework, but one that had been stripped of nearly every decent player - but he rebuilt and improved year on year even given those restroctions - so his time at Saints matches what Pocchetino did at that club mate.

He kept the plate spinning in terms of method first season at S'ton. For me he moved away from that last season and made S'ton a lot more one dimensional in terms of how they attacked.

As for Spurs being genuine title contenders - hmmm, they did finish 11 of Leicester last seaosn, but mathemathically at least in the media where trumpeted as the last title rival to fall away, as for this season - theyve never even been in a race mate as Chelsea have had it won since Christmas - unless Christam title challenges are now a thing your measuring (rs constant champions there)

Both failed as managers and where sacked in Spain previously as well just as another little comparasion.

Both good managers, both easy links to the Barca jobs, and both more proven than all 4 of Barcelons latest managers when appointed

I think that's a bit churlish. They chased Leicester pretty much all the way. If they're not title contenders then we can kiss goodbye to that description for anther decade.

 

[davek]

and you think Spurs play in a manner similar to Barcelona?

How was my stating that an argument to suggest Pocchetino ws a good fit for Barcelona?

 

[The Fonz]

The players have switched back to the style of football they knew and remembered how to play from 2014 lads. Even the players that weren't here then, which is like half the squad.

Footballing philosophy by osmosis. It's a common enough phenomena

 

[hallamblue]

I dont. I can see that in the past few weeks - and as a result of the Bolaise injury and Koeman finally playing to the technical strengths of the players he inherited - the playing style has changed from the very predictable long ball out to the flanks to something more bearable to watch. The interesting question for me is whether with Bolaise back and any additions he makes this summer the style reverts more to his second season at Southampton (which was the way he set up at Feyenoord) and there is more of an emphasis on getting a lot of balls into the box for a big bustling forward. I suppose Lukaku coming or going might influence that decision too.

Managers can only work with the raw materials they have. Koeman didn't trust our defence, and he bought Bolassie, hence the long hoof up the wing. Now he has had a chance to work with the defence, and a chance to buy 2 players and bring through 2 youngsters who he can mentor the style has changed. I very much doubt he had world class players at Feyenoord, and he certainly didn't at Southampton. You say Pochettino built Southampton but when he left half of the team was sold and Koeman had to start virtually from scratch, which he did very successfully.

I have no doubt if Koeman went to Barcelona he would do fine there, and if he stays with us and is given enough money I think we will challenge for top 4 and be in the top 7 every year.

Dave you are somewhat blinkered by your admiration for Martinez and I understand that. The first season he was with us, I thought we had the perfect marriage of a pragmatic defence and an attack that would take a risk, which they never would under Moyes. However, that was a false dawn and Martinez reverted to type in the next 2 seasons.

We are building something under Koeman, most Everton fans can see it, and a lot of neutrals and media pundits can see it as well.

 

[ToffeeDan]

I can't see Barca going for Ronald..

and, also, let's get off page 1892, not my favourite number.

 

[davek]

Managers can only work with the raw materials they have. Koeman didn't trust our defence, and he bought Bolassie, hence the long hoof up the wing. Now he has had a chance to work with the defence, and a chance to buy 2 players and bring through 2 youngsters who he can mentor the style has changed. I very much doubt he had world class players at Feyenoord, and he certainly didn't at Southampton. You say Pochettino built Southampton but when he left half of the team was sold and Koeman had to start virtually from scratch, which he did very successfully.

I have no doubt if Koeman went to Barcelona he would do fine there, and if he stays with us and is given enough money I think we will challenge for top 4 and be in the top 7 every year.

Dave you are somewhat blinkered by your admiration for Martinez and I understand that. The first season he was with us, I thought we had the perfect marriage of a pragmatic defence and an attack that would take a risk, which they never would under Moyes. However, that was a false dawn and Martinez reverted to type in the next 2 seasons.

We are building something under Koeman, most Everton fans can see it, and a lot of neutrals and media pundits can see it as well.

It's way too early to make any conclusions on Koeman. It's only three months ago when most people were saying he was struggling and the football was rubbish.

I see us in 7th place and consolidating that only by changing our game up from the one preferred by Koeman until Bolasie's injury.

He's had 7 months of competitive matches with us and how anyone can argue that there's been some linear progression is beyond my comprehension. Do we look ok at the minute? Yes. Do we look hard to beat? Yes. But this is all short termism. Let's see where we are at Christmas next season. At the moment everyone thinks themselves experts on what Koeman wants and how he operates. Truth is we are all still stumbling about in the dark and the only way questions like that will be resolved is by giving him a minimum of 18 months to show us what his vision is here. As said, I get mixed messages at the moment. If anyone sees an unswerving style then they are kidding themselves.

 

[Goat]

It's way too early to make any conclusions on Koeman. It's only three months ago when most people were saying he was struggling and the football was rubbish.

I see us in 7th place and consolidating that only by changing our game up from the one preferred by Koeman until Bolasie's injury.

He's had 7 months of competitive matches with us and how anyone can argue that there's been some linear progression is beyond my comprehension. Do we look ok at the minute? Yes. Do we look hard to beat? Yes. But this is all short termism. Let's see where we are at Christmas next season. At the moment everyone thinks themselves experts on what Koeman wants and how he operates. Truth is we are all still stumbling about in the dark and the only way questions like that will be resolved is by giving him a minimum of 18 months to show us what his vision is here. As said, I get mixed messages at the moment. If anyone sees an unswerving style then they are kidding themselves.

lollollol

What an utter trumpet.

 

[bluestevon]

Last season and this season...that cements them as a CL club when you add it to the previous occasions they've reached top 4 recently.


He kept the plate spinning in terms of method first season at S'ton. For me he moved away from that last season and made S'ton a lot more one dimensional in terms of how they attacked.


I think that's a bit churlish. They chased Leicester pretty much all the way. If they're not title contenders then we can kiss goodbye to that description for anther decade.

Scored 54 in 13/14 under Pocch, 54 first season under Koeman and 59 in his second season, so seems there one dimensional way of play led to them scoring more goals, they also conceded 13 less and 5 less in Koemans 2 seasons than Under Pocch mate

This season the manager you reckon improved Saints style over Koeman has them on track to score 42 and concede 46 btw, seems the plates have fallen off under Puel.

Errrrm Dave 'this season your already giving Spurs a CL place - the season has 13 games left, they are 1 points above City (City have a game in hand), 3 above Arsenal (Arsenal have a game in hand) 4 above Liverpool and 5 above United (United have a game in hand), they 'could' qulaify for the CL this seaosn, equally they could end up finishing 5-6th (even 7th if form turned poor)

Challenging once for a title (will give you that they did more than anyone else last season - not much competition mind as everyone flopped) doesn't turn them into regular title challengers though,m much like Liverpool arent - despite finishing a hell of a lot close to the title than 11 points off (which is what spurs finished)

This season was their first in the last 6 seasons they qualified for the CL, they have only played in it one other season since it's inception - in 10/11, hardly a CL regular under even the most lenient scale of judging them mate

 

[davek]

lollollol

What an utter trumpet.

We;ve had two different approaches in two three and a half month periods. The hoofball period followed by a period when the ball was played through the midfield a lot more. I think it's fair to point that out and to ask what the real Koeman style will be.

 

[TommyDavo]

Koeman > Martinez. End of.

If he goes now or goes in 1 or 2 years time i will be happier in the knowledge that we as a club are standing on better foundations. We have better players, less gash ones, they're fitter and mentally stronger. The next manager isn't taking a punt as we are back to being the best of the rest, whatever happens we are in a good position to cope with change.

This is the measure of a manager for me. It's where he leaves us that counts and if that is in a better position then he's done his job. Moyes was successful, Bobby wasn't and if if RK leaves now it will have been a successful appointment though I would prefer that metric over a few seasons

 

[davek]

Scored 54 in 13/14 under Pocch, 54 first season under Koeman and 59 in his second season, so seems there one dimensional way of play led to them scoring more goals, they also conceded 13 less and 5 less in Koemans 2 seasons than Under Pocch mate

This season the manager you reckon improved Saints style over Koeman has them on track to score 42 and concede 46 btw, seems the plates have fallen off under Puel.

I watched that S'ton performance against United in the final and thought: "FFS, why cant we play like that?". His style is vastly superior to Koeman's when he was there.

The feller has been shorn of VVD and Fonte. He's playing with a new CB pairing.

Errrrm Dave 'this season your already giving Spurs a CL place - the season has 13 games left, they are 1 points above City (City have a game in hand), 3 above Arsenal (Arsenal have a game in hand) 4 above Liverpool and 5 above United (United have a game in hand), they 'could' qulaify for the CL this seaosn, equally they could end up finishing 5-6th (even 7th if form turned poor)

Challenging once for a title (will give you that they did more than anyone else last season - not much competition mind as everyone flopped) doesn't turn them into regular title challengers though,m much like Liverpool arent - despite finishing a hell of a lot close to the title than 11 points off (which is what spurs finished)

This season was their first in the last 6 seasons they qualified for the CL, they have only played in it one other season since it's inception - in 10/11, hardly a CL regular under even the most lenient scale of judging them mate

Yeah, ok. Spurs wont qualify for the CL and they were rubbish last season.

Mighty big words for a supporter of Ronald and our 7th place trophy winners.

 

[Goat]

We;ve had two different approaches in two three and a half month periods. The hoofball period followed by a period when the ball was played through the midfield a lot more. I think it's fair to point that out and to ask what the real Koeman style will be.

Koeman stated he hasnt told the players to hoof it, he was quite angry that they did that, that had ZERO to do with Koeman, that was certain players doing what came natural to them.

But ok, he got Morgan in, who doesnt even know what the word hoof means.

I told you from day 1, Koemans style is hard pressing, direct football, not direct in hoof, direct in speed, get the ball, move it forward, run with the ball at pace, press from the front.

It was always going to take time for Koemans tactics to filter through, now, the players know whats expected and we are currently seeing the fruits of that with regards our current unbeaten run.

 

[Zezti]

This thread just goes round in circles and very small circles at that.