Ronald Koeman discussion

[TheCount]

The game changed with the McCarthy injury. We need more quality in midfield and up top.

The first half reminded me of an Athletico performance under Simeone. We just didn't have the quality to punish them when we were on top.

Barkley is not a no.10. Lukaku is not a footballer.

 

[mkrudden]

Just the £6million wages.

He's clearly overpaid - as they all are - but I'm not arsed about what he gets paid tbh. When you put it in the perspective of what we gave Bobby (£4.5m a year plus the £10m pay-off)... and he got us in this mess in the first place (as in taking us to mid-table - he is in no way to blame for Koeman's mistakes)

Hmmm I think the more you pay the more you can expect. And a severance pay-off is for the years of the contract cancelled. So not being an arse but not sure what the relevance is.

My point is that, if i'm not mistaken, Koeman is paid one of the highest salaries in the league for a manager.

With that investment, you'd expect a higher quality of management.

It's like saying if you spend money on Messi you'd expect a better return than from Akinfenwa. The reason one cost £200mil and the other 20pence is because one is miles better than the other.

It's not unreasonable for fans to be scratching their head as to what Koeman's grand plan is when he was heralded as a fantastic appointment as is paid as such.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

They did mate
I have said countless times it isn't the greatest squad of players, but it is better than what we are showing.
The style we are playing is appalling and we may struggle to attract players we all want

It really isn't mate, it's a horrible side devoid of any real quality except Lukaku who is so lazy he'll never reach his full potential. Everyone else is either garbage or bang average, even lads like Barkley are wildly overrated. This side has finished 11th for two seasons running now and everyone thought they under achieved, well we as a club might of under achieved but in reality it's an achievement for this squad because that's they're real level. They're a piss poor side, slightly better then relegation fodder but not even good enough to be the better side of mid table mediocrity.

 

[BlueToff]

and then what?
You keep focusing on winning the ball mate. and you're spot on. We do that better than we ever did under Martinez.
But what next?
Because most apart from your good self can see that we are absolutely devoid of ideas.

Oh no, I can see we're devoid of ideas mate.

But I don't put that all down to the manager.

Barkley gets it, five/six times in the first half last night, right on the edge of Liverpool's area.

Only once does he pick a pass.

Same goes for Valencia, and Lennon.

I don't get it. I don't blame the manager for that - it's the players. Ross is the worst for it.

It's like they do everything right and just how Koeman wants, but then lack the gumption to have the end product.

Look at Saints last season. There were games that they scored six, eight - bloody hell they scored four against Arsenal and City and three against Liverpool.

But they had players who just knew what to do. Ours freeze as soon as they get near the box. It's pathetic.

So, based on what I saw of Saints last year - and knowing that they scored plenty of goals from that type of play - it's evident to me that the players here are the issue, and not the system.

And that's not me excusing Koeman, as he's made a lot of mistakes during this run.

 

[BlueToff]

Hmmm I think the more you pay the more you can expect. And a severance pay-off is for the years of the contract cancelled. So not being an arse but not sure what the relevance is.

My point is that, if i'm not mistaken, Koeman is paid one of the highest salaries in the league for a manager.

With that investment, you'd expect a higher quality of management.

It's like saying if you spend money on Messi you'd expect a better return than from Akinfenwa. The reason one cost £200mil and the other 20pence is because one is miles better than the other.

It's not unreasonable for fans to be scratching their head as to what Koeman's grand plan is when he was heralded as a fantastic appointment as is paid as such.

He's the seventh-best paid manager in the league mate. I expect us to finish 7th. I think we're still on for that, as crap as we've been.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

It completely baffles me how there are still people on here who think this guy is the man to lead us,
What are they seeing in him in the 20 odd games we've played to come to that conclusion ? i can't see one positive thing from him, i haven't got a clue what system we play, the players must think that way as well, does he want us to be the new Wimbledon ?
9th place or 10th place ? how [Poor language removed] must this league be because we are absolute dog muck.
We got away with it last week if Arsenal had taken their chances, this "team" could sink like a stone in the next few weeks.

Arsenal and the RS will be top 4 this season, and could contest the title. We beat the first, and lost to the second on a 94th minute goal after the players had run their balloches off all night. From this, you conclude that this 'team' could sink like a stone in the next few weeks?

That's a strange extrapolation, IMHO, from what has happened. I see things differently - starting with the late equalizer against Utd, the team has finally found some backbone and will start to consolidate around our current position and come out of this appalling run we've been on. I wish I could say we would go on the march up the table, but we obv don't have the players for that. Still, once the fume clears from being done by the RS at the death last night, I think we'll see things in a better light.

 

[BlueToff]

The game changed with the McCarthy injury. We need more quality in midfield and up top.

The first half reminded me of an Athletico performance under Simeone. We just didn't have the quality to punish them when we were on top.

Barkley is not a no.10. Lukaku is not a footballer.

Exactly this.

First half - it's actually the best we've been.

That first half-an hour was superb. It had everything, except the part that counts.

Second half was dire

 

[Zatara]

Right. I watch football for a living, so don't patronise me.

I know full well how the DoF model works.

A manager sets out a style of play and identifies the 'type' of player who he wants, working alongside the DOF to do that.

The DOF then identifies and signs those players to fit that mould.

Let's say we sign Schneiderlin, a player who Koeman knows extremely well and actually played his best football under him.

That's a Koeman target.

Gueye had in the past been sought by Koeman, and Walsh. Bolasie, likewise, had been praised by Koeman as a player he'd like to sign while he was at Saints.

And okay, Sissoko actually didn't start a match in the Euros until, off the top of my head, the third group game - when France were playing a 4-2-3-1.

In the knockout stages, they stuck to a 4-3-3, and Sissoko played in I believe three of the four games.

He was - and always has been, since he came from the ranks at Toulouse - better in central areas, either on the side of a three or in an advanced role like where he played at Newcastle when he first arrived.

He's been shoehorned out wide as he's got pace and power, but isn't a winger.

But okay.

Southamptons setup seems to be vastly different than ours...

There the manager is brought in to fit into their model with the DOF as the decision maker on transfers....here, well who knows.

But there is no way i will accept that Walsh bought bolasie, williams or Stek nor that Sissoko was his target.

It doesnt fit what he has ever recommended elsewhere...

As for Sissoko, in his supposed best game at the euros it was in a right midfield position where he was applauded for going forward and having no end product.

 

[Zatara]

2 were forced due to injury, including the keeper ffs.

He was forced to make a goalkeeping change with only ONE option.

He was NOT forced to play Barry or then play CL miles out of position

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Southamptons setup seems to be vastly different than ours...

There the manager is brought in to fit into their model with the DOF as the decision maker on transfers....here, well who knows.

But there is no way i will accept that Walsh bought bolasie, williams or Stek nor that Sissoko was his target.

It doesnt fit what he has ever recommended elsewhere...

As for Sissoko, in his supposed best game at the euros it was in a right midfield position where he was applauded for going forward and having no end product.

I would assume that's the model we will have here , but since we had no manager and no DoF, we had to start somewhere. We're at the beginning of the journey not the end.

 

[VentureBrosEFC]

Right. I watch football for a living, so don't patronise me.

I know full well how the DoF model works.

A manager sets out a style of play and identifies the 'type' of player who he wants, working alongside the DOF to do that.

The DOF then identifies and signs those players to fit that mould.

Let's say we sign Schneiderlin, a player who Koeman knows extremely well and actually played his best football under him.

That's a Koeman target.

Gueye had in the past been sought by Koeman, and Walsh. Bolasie, likewise, had been praised by Koeman as a player he'd like to sign while he was at Saints.

And okay, Sissoko actually didn't start a match in the Euros until, off the top of my head, the third group game - when France were playing a 4-2-3-1.

In the knockout stages, they stuck to a 4-3-3, and Sissoko played in I believe three of the four games.

He was - and always has been, since he came from the ranks at Toulouse - better in central areas, either on the side of a three or in an advanced role like where he played at Newcastle when he first arrived.

He's been shoehorned out wide as he's got pace and power, but isn't a winger.

But okay.

I could give a crap if you watch for a living and the patronizing has been from both us in this tete a tete so don't throw rocks then hide your hands. Have you ever stopped to consider that how we are working a DoF system might be different to others ways of using it? Obviously not. He played in the middle in France because of how crap the league is. He can't play it here or rather won't because he has little work ethic. If he can why have multiple Newcastle managers and now Pochettino not done it? As for his time for France you would think if he really was just being shoehorned they would've played someone else there cause he's not getting in ahead of Kante Pogba and Matuidi. I bring up his Euros because it's when the media started to talk about him except for a few stories about where he was going after Newcastle got relegated, you seem to reference it only as an attempt to show you watched it? Or something?

 

[Zatara]

The game changed with the McCarthy injury. We need more quality in midfield and up top.

The first half reminded me of an Athletico performance under Simeone. We just didn't have the quality to punish them when we were on top.

Barkley is not a no.10. Lukaku is not a footballer.

I'm sorry mate but how was that like an Atletico performance? Because the players ran around?

Not being funny here but in possession atletico get the ball into dangerous areas through the midfield...our plan was to get it to coleman or give it to lukaku when he was marked...

 

[BlueToff]

Southamptons setup seems to be vastly different than ours...

There the manager is brought in to fit into their model with the DOF as the decision maker on transfers....here, well who knows.

But there is no way i will accept that Walsh bought bolasie, williams or Stek nor that Sissoko was his target.

It doesnt fit what he has ever recommended elsewhere...

As for Sissoko, in his supposed best game at the euros it was in a right midfield position where he was applauded for going forward and having no end product.

Walsh had four weeks in the job as of the when the window shut.

Williams has been our best defender. He had one bad game vs Watford. Bolasie has been our main creative outlet - rightly or wrongly. He's already proving a miss.

Stek won us some games, cost us others. Was brought in as a second choice and it's a disgrace we didn't go out and get another keeper in.

 

[Zatara]

I could give a crap if you watch for a living and the patronizing has been from both us in this tete a tete so don't throw rocks then hide your hands. Have you ever stopped to consider that how we are working a DoF system might be different to others ways of using it? Obviously not. He played in the middle in France because of how crap the league is. He can't play it here or rather won't because he has little work ethic. If he can why have multiple Newcastle managers and now Pochettino not done it? As for his time for France you would think if he really was just being shoehorned they would've played someone else there cause he's not getting in ahead of Kante Pogba and Matuidi. I bring up his Euros because it's when the media started to talk about him except for a few stories about where he was going after Newcastle got relegated, you seem to reference it only as an attempt to show you watched it? Or something?

Off topic...im guessing youre an American. Because surely you mean to say "I couldnt give a crap"....If you "could give a crap" it doesnt make any sense.

Oh and i pretty much agree with your post.

 

[BlueToff]

I could give a crap if you watch for a living and the patronizing has been from both us in this tete a tete so don't throw rocks then hide your hands. Have you ever stopped to consider that how we are working a DoF system might be different to others ways of using it? Obviously not. He played in the middle in France because of how crap the league is. He can't play it here or rather won't because he has little work ethic. If he can why have multiple Newcastle managers and now Pochettino not done it? As for his time for France you would think if he really was just being shoehorned they would've played someone else there cause he's not getting in ahead of Kante Pogba and Matuidi. I bring up his Euros because it's when the media started to talk about him except for a few stories about where he was going after Newcastle got relegated, you seem to reference it only as an attempt to show you watched it? Or something?

Look, I have said plenty of times that I'm not devastated we missed out on him.

My point is that you cant' say 'he'd have been crap for Everton' just because he hasn't impressed at Spurs.

It's utterly hypothetical.

I personally think Sissoko would have added more to our side in last night's game than Barry or Barkley or Valencia did...