Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluewally]

Totally irrelevant though to:

a-- the tactics
b-- the formation
C-- mori not heading the ball clear

2 things apparently which were affected by the change and one which has been ignored.

Just a big coincidence then?

 

[Zatara]

It was the wrong sub Zat. Niasse for Rom would have been fine. But not for Lennon.

As @Khalekan said, it was either go defensive or switch for Del if it had to be like for like. RM failed to react to the situation in the game...

However, you're right on Mori. He missed three headers. It's why I don't think the players should be let off scot-free either. They fell apart.

If Mori had made 2 headers which he should have done we would have won...same with lukaku pen.

The sub affects nothing.

 

[Mickey]

I wouldn't have ever called them 'solid'.

But yeh, I'd have taken an FA Cup win rather than another year of scrapping against relegation with more budget cuts etc etc...

Well you're giving me an insight into the mentality of Bobbys boys if nothing else. Crazy stuff.

 

[bluestevon]

No mate I've said the basic premise is sound and in the long run will see us get there.

Due to RM's inflexibility (at times, not all the time) we haven't achieved it.

It's looking likely that he may not be the right man in taking us up a level, but i'm still willing to give him the next two months to prove it either way.

Saturday was a big shift for me though.

If he comes back from this mate it would be the greatest comeback since Lazarus

Don't think 9 years into his managerial career and having stuck totally to his phillosophy all the way through that he will ever change, he is what he is and hope that the new owner decides to bin him and let a new man have the full off season in charge

 

[bluestevon]

If Mori had made 2 headers which he should have done we would have won...same with lukaku pen.

The sub affects nothing.

The sub altered our shape and thats why we started getting crosses raining into the box - they had no pressure and basically was like them taking free kicks into our box mate, Lennon coming off did that

 

[BlueToff]

Scoring more goals is not a sign of progression if you are conceding them at the same rate at the other end. We are more entertaining this year. We have played in some great matches, but we have lost all of them. We are no closer to being a top six team than we were last year.

If we're scoring more goals and are more entertaining and have played more great matches then we have progressed - in those aspects - so it's wrong to say we haven't progressed at all.

We have 10 more points now than we did at this stage last year?

So, again, small progression but granted nowhere near what we should be on and we are underachieving.

I think if RM can show he can turn it around in the next 10 games then he gets the first part of next season to show that he can also progress us in terms of defending, just as this year we have progressed with attacking.

If he can't show improvement in the next 10 then i'd be happy to see him leave. If he does but doesn't live up to it at the start of next season again, i'd be happy to see him leave.

 

[BlueToff]

If Mori had made 2 headers which he should have done we would have won...same with lukaku pen.

The sub affects nothing.

I agree on the first point Zat but the second if wrong I'm sorry.

It totally effected our shape. One of the reasons we were defending the crosses they were lumping in is because we had McCarthy dropping back into the area to help Jags and Mori out and Lennon then flitting across to cover McCarthy's role as well as helping Oviedo out when needed.

Niasse came on with no positional discipline but more importantly experience of this in the Premier League. It was the wrong person to bring on - not just in hind-sight but at the time.

 

[Ashtonian]

If we're scoring more goals and are more entertaining and have played more great matches then we have progressed - in those aspects - so it's wrong to say we haven't progressed at all.

We have 10 more points now than we did at this stage last year?

So, again, small progression but granted nowhere near what we should be on and we are underachieving.

I think if RM can show he can turn it around in the next 10 games then he gets the first part of next season to show that he can also progress us in terms of defending, just as this year we have progressed with attacking.

If he can't show improvement in the next 10 then i'd be happy to see him leave. If he does but doesn't live up to it at the start of next season again, i'd be happy to see him leave.

Think the small print is despite all these lovely and many goals we score, we still can't win a game.

 

[bluestevon]

If we're scoring more goals and are more entertaining and have played more great matches then we have progressed - in those aspects - so it's wrong to say we haven't progressed at all.

We have 10 more points now than we did at this stage last year?

So, again, small progression but granted nowhere near what we should be on and we are underachieving.

I think if RM can show he can turn it around in the next 10 games then he gets the first part of next season to show that he can also progress us in terms of defending, just as this year we have progressed with attacking.

If he can't show improvement in the next 10 then i'd be happy to see him leave. If he does but doesn't live up to it at the start of next season again, i'd be happy to see him leave.

Start of next season wpould be too late mate, your letting a manager spend upwards of say 50m+ decide on players futures, and then possibly replacing him within two months with a new man - of which you will have a lot less people free, with no time to bed himself in, with no chance to rbign players of his own choice in, you do it now or end of the season and give you the best option to get the best person in for the job with a full summer to get to know the squad and go after what he needs

 

[whiteshadow]

To those advocating Martinez as the right man for the job, what would it take (if indeed, anything...) for you to change your mind? When would enough be enough?

Imo next season is make or break for Martinez. The inconsisteny in results will become untenable if he can't turn it around then. Wether he deserves to be given that chance or not is up for debate.

If we get rid of him now will we lose certain key players? Can we keep hold of those players if he stays anyway? Contentious but would it be worth considering getting Moyes back if he did go?

 

[Little Ralphy]

I wouldn't have ever called them 'solid'.

But yeh, I'd have taken an FA Cup win rather than another year of scrapping against relegation with more budget cuts etc etc...

Third time today I've seen someone mention budget cuts in relation to Wigan as if it's an excuse. His wage bill went up while he was there not down.

Do you honestly believe that they'd prefer to be getting ready to travel to Colchester as opposed to someone like Norwich getting ready for a visit from Man City.

At a time when the money was going up in the Premiership they couldn't afford to go down, as it gets harder and harder to come back up. It was a fairytale for Dave Whelan no doubt, cos you might not know but he broke his leg in an FA Cup Final back in the day, but for pretty much all other Wigan fans they wanted Premiership survival.

 

[AJC5]

I can tell youve never worked in financial markets from that post

Yep, I'm a banking lawyer.

 

[BlueToff]

Think the small print is despite all these lovely and many goals we score, we still can't win a game.

I know that mate and I'm not defending that.

I'm saying that people shouldn't say we've shown no progression then in the same post say 'we score more goals and are more entertaining'.

By definition the term 'more' in that context pretty much equals progression.

What hasn't progressed - I agree - is the results and at the end of the day that's the main thing.

Now, I'm still willing - for lack of a better option in some ways as well (caretaker managers reek of club in crisis and would not indicate to our young stars that this new owner has the situation under control in any way whatsoever) - to give RM until the end of the season to get an end result - and as I said I'd accept top 8 or the FA Cup - and that would give him the time at the start of next season.

If he failed at the start of the term to show clear improvement and progression in regards to the defence etc than he'd have to go.

 

[Zatara]

The sub altered our shape and thats why we started getting crosses raining into the box - they had no pressure and basically was like them taking free kicks into our box mate, Lennon coming off did that

How did it affect the shape when it was a like for like change?

 

[BlueToff]

Start of next season wpould be too late mate, your letting a manager spend upwards of say 50m+ decide on players futures, and then possibly replacing him within two months with a new man - of which you will have a lot less people free, with no time to bed himself in, with no chance to rbign players of his own choice in, you do it now or end of the season and give you the best option to get the best person in for the job with a full summer to get to know the squad and go after what he needs

Any manager that is brought in to replace RM should be somebody of a similar ilk but with the experience to give us what we need. It's why Flores would be my choice purely because of his defensive record and experience at huge clubs in Spain.

Also, it's not like RM is Rogers in the transfer market. He rarely buys duds or spends serious money on them anyway. I don't think a new manager would come into our squad and find he didn't like any of RM's signings. RM is a lot like Moyes in that respect - he gets players (or the big-mooney players) that would be of use to any manager.