Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[orly]

What I mean is that at Wigan and here he had one season with quality experienced players.

Had we been money bags, he would have gone out and immediately replaced Distin with proven quality. Same with Howard. Same with bulking the squad with quality in case we had injuries.

I just don't think he's ever had the money to warrant the abuse he gets about the defence.

We had a back four of Robles, Oviedo, Baines, Stones and Pennington against Leicester. I'd say any manager would struggle is all.

He spent £19.5m on Kone and Naisse.

Let's not give him any more for the sake of our sanity.

 

[zandvoort blue]

Whilst Leicester are the exception, progression is important surely?

And we haven't shown progression, over these two years, granted.

Mate, Leicester sacked a more limited manager and replaced him with one who could get the best out of the players at his disposal
Can you honestly say we are progressing at all under Martinez, and if yes, by what common measure?

 

[Thomasc]

He spent £19.5m on Kone and Naisse.

Let's not give him any more for the sake of our sanity.

There is actually no reasonably sane come back to that fact.

 

[mightymoyes]

After season one, should he have not bought lukaku and instead predicted the radical demise of Howard and Distin?

they were nearly 40! hardly needs a special ability!

 

[RFUS]

Not sure there is any need. Surely either comment with an answer or ignore?

Not calling you stupid mate, I just think that hypothetical is counter productive. It's sidestepping reality and the trend of results we've seen for two years based on nothing at all. That's not a constructive platform for a Martinez defence.

 

[Zatara]

What I mean is that at Wigan and here he had one season with quality experienced players.

Had we been money bags, he would have gone out and immediately replaced Distin with proven quality. Same with Howard. Same with bulking the squad with quality in case we had injuries.

I just don't think he's ever had the money to warrant the abuse he gets about the defence.

We had a back four of Robles, Oviedo, Baines, Stones and Pennington against Leicester. I'd say any manager would struggle is all.

Spot on.

Coleman and baines been awful
stones and mori young and new partnership
Limited funds to replace players
jags been injured
barry no pace to cover in front

Man city spend over £100mil on defenders who concede daft goals but people want pellegrini.

martinez with that money would no doubt sign quality players as he has done so far with the bigger transfers.

 

[GlosBlue]

Come on mate, debate with me! I'm genuinely interested in your POV.

I just think he has been given enough time to prove himself and am genuinely worry that he is out of his depth and could relegate us next season if he is left in charge.

He could have brought in some established defenders in the last summer if he was worried about the defence but didn't and made no effort to replace Howard. Plus he never makes a decent substitute to change a game and talks utter nonsense afterwards.

 

[MikeH72]

The worst manager in Premier League history will be gone soon lads. Sit tight

 

[Thomasc]

And we haven't shown progression, over these two years, granted.

We are in decline aren't we? or am I missing something here? ........no I am not, we are definitely in decline, so why are you bothering to make any case for a manager who is taking us backwards?

What point are you actually making?

 

[bluewally]

Question, another.

Would it be fair to say than in all of the seasons he has been manager of Wigan AND Everton, the only time he has had an experienced, quality defence and keeper is in his season 1 with us?

At Wigan, wages and fees meant poorer quality.
At us, season 1 potentially proved his side's can defend. Was it his fault ever since he's had youthful/inexperienced players there? Should he have expected after season to have needed a first choice CB and keeper?

Wigan goals conceded premier league

05/06 52
06/07 59
07/08 51
08/09 45
09/10 79 <----Martinez 1st season
10/11 61
11/12 62
12/13 73

Everton
10/11 45
11/12 40
12/13 40
13/14 39 <----Martinez 1st season
14/15 50
15/16* 52

The only thing I can see is that barring his first season with us he makes defences worse.

I'd have to say his first season with us is a blip but it is purely a POV thing

 

[zandvoort blue]

Spot on.

Coleman and baines been awful
stones and mori young and new partnership
Limited funds to replace players
jags been injured
barry no pace to cover in front

Man city spend over £100mil on defenders who concede daft goals but people want pellegrini.

martinez with that money would no doubt sign quality players as he has done so far with the bigger transfers.

Would it not make sense to try and get the value we have spent out of the international players at our disposal by proper coaching and drilling, rather than throwing cash up the wall at new defenders. Sponking cash on lists of new players is not always the best answer I feel, as the RS will tell you

 

[Thomasc]

Spot on.

Coleman and baines been awful
stones and mori young and new partnership
Limited funds to replace players
jags been injured
barry no pace to cover in front

Man city spend over £100mil on defenders who concede daft goals but people want pellegrini.

martinez with that money would no doubt sign quality players as he has done so far with the bigger transfers.

Please explain that last bit? i'm struggling after Lukaku

 

[mightymoyes]

Spot on.

Coleman and baines been awful
stones and mori young and new partnership
Limited funds to replace players
jags been injured
barry no pace to cover in front

Man city spend over £100mil on defenders who concede daft goals but people want pellegrini.

martinez with that money would no doubt sign quality players as he has done so far with the bigger transfers.

he doesnt buy their players

 

[mkrudden]

He had the benefit of a player bought by Moyes who was always destined to be an England CB from his days at Barnsley (vault me on it), who's now supposedly a £40-50m player.

Who was effectively added to the Moyes defence in Martinez first season. He's since bought a £10m CB aswell.

He's had ample funds compared to his predecessor, but he's failed to get the best out of what he has at his disposal defensively, it's that simple.

Don't tell me that a back 4 of Baines, Coleman, Jags and Stones, could be classed as lacking quality?

Add to that Funes Mori, Galloway and Oviedo - has he got the best out of that lot?

Not a chance.

He should have replaced Howard last summer, we were all screaming for it, but he chose not to, and then didn't drop him until the crowd virtually demanded it. Who's fault's that?

His entire career shows that he can't organise and drill a solid defensive unit. Resource isn't the issue.

Leicester won the league with Huth and Morgan at CB btw mate.............

Absolutely, I have no argument in defence in relation to Leicester. They have done a great job but must be considered the exception to the rule.

We bought a south american cb because we couldn't afford better. The actual valuation of the player was 5.5million which could be used as a guage of experience (obviously not of quality, look at Mahrez, Kante).

Stones has quality but no experience. He makes juvenile (in footballing terms) errors regularly. He needed taking out of the firing line this season. Who did we bring in? Aforementioned inexperienced South American. It isn't ideal.
Baines, niggly injuries after returning from injuries.
Coleman, niggling injuries.
Jags, two big-ish injuries in one season.
Howard, replaced by inexperienced Robles.

How can a club with limited finances account for these eventualities? And in failing to do so, how is that the managers fault.

Put another way, under Moyes we were generally guff going forward until season 10. The results were we were a team with a battle hardened 11 with brilliant defenders. So Martinez comes in, focuses said limited funding on attacking areas only to see the form and fitness of his quality back 5 disintegrate within a matter of months.

 

[TheFinnFan]

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