Riots in Ukraine

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......and just to put NATO versus anyone else into perspective......


"The combined defense expenditures of all NATO nations in 2013 amounted to $1.02 trillion. This figure includes research and development expenditures related to purchase of major equipment and pensions.

By comparison, the total of military budgets for all countries in the world was $1.745 trillion in 2012, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute in Sweden.

In 2012, China’s expenditures amounted to $166 billion and Russia’s were $90 billion. Iran trailed with just under $7 billion, according to SIPRI.

By troop numbers, NATO also held a lopsided advantage over any other nation, with a total of 3,370,000 servicemembers in 2013, according to NATO’s statistics. This contrasts with Russia’s 766,000 troops and China’s estimated 2.3 million active-duty personnel, according to Sam Perlo-Freeman, director of SIPRI’s program on military expenditures.

“NATO still accounts for a clear majority of world military spending, over 60 percent, and a substantial number of other top spenders are American allies like Saudi Arabia and Israel,” Perlo-Freeman said. “In terms of military capabilities, the U.S. and NATO will remain absolutely unmatched for the foreseeable future.”

But Perlo-Freeman warned that although China’s military capabilities “are far, far shorter” than America’s, it doesn’t mean that Washington can impose its will in China’s “near-environment.”

As for Russia, Perlo-Freeman said it could compare with the West only in its nuclear capabilities.

“But its conventional forces have a lot of serious deficiencies in terms of command and control and mobility, (and) in terms of actually being able to fight modern warfare, they are far behind Western countries,” he said.
 
"NATO has agreed on “substantive package” for Georgia that will help the country to prepare for membership in the Alliance, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on the second day of NATO leaders’ summit in Wales on September 5."

Ukraine will follow....
I don't think Georgia will ever join NATO, this is just diplomatic bluster. NATO cannot guarantee the safety of either Georgia or Ukraine.
 
I don't think Georgia will ever join NATO, this is just diplomatic bluster. NATO cannot guarantee the safety of either Georgia or Ukraine.

Once you're in, you're in. An attack on one is an attack on all is THE key principle of NATO. No state would attack a NATO member........
 
Once you're in, you're in. An attack on one is an attack on all is THE key principle of NATO. No state would attack a NATO member........
But you're missing the point, the fact that there is a likely chance of a Russian attack on Georgia or Ukraine is precisely the reason why they cannot join NATO. The whole point of NATO is to protect its member states. States like Georgia who has Russian troops stationed just 60 miles from its capital can never be protected, there is no chance. Moreover, it would bring NATO on the brink of war unnecessarily. It reminds me of Kazakhstan asking the USA for protection back in the 90's, the U.S laughed in their face.
 
But you're missing the point, the fact that there is a likely chance of a Russian attack on Georgia or Ukraine is precisely the reason why they cannot join NATO. The whole point of NATO is to protect its member states. States like Georgia who has Russian troops stationed just 60 miles from its capital can never be protected, there is no chance. Moreover, it would bring NATO on the brink of war unnecessarily. It reminds me of Kazakhstan asking the USA for protection back in the 90's, the U.S laughed in their face.

Of course you don't want to compromise NATO unduly. BUT if they get in, and it seems they are well down the path to membership, then they will be covered. NATO will not allow Russia or anyone else for that matter to determine who can or cannot join. There is only a likely chance of a Russian attack while they remain outside of NATO. Russia is no match for NATO and indeed has even tried to join it.....it was rejected....
 
Of course you don't want to compromise NATO unduly. BUT if they get in, and it seems they are well down the path to membership, then they will be covered. NATO will not allow Russia or anyone else for that matter to determine who can or cannot join. There is only a likely chance of a Russian attack while they remain outside of NATO. Russia is no match for NATO and indeed has even tried to join it.....it was rejected....
Well, let's just agree to disagree. Personally, I cannot see Georgia or Ukraine in NATO, it sounds far-fetched.
 
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