Rewiring history..

[Khalekan]

It is time to tear down the Pyramids.

Hundreds of thousands of slaves were used in the building of them.

 

[chrismpw]

There seems to be an overt trend at the moment to wipe out elements of history just because it doesn't fit in with current morality and political views.
This isn't a new phenomenon, it was always done by conquering hoardes to eradicate cultures, the library at Alexandria is the biggest known occassion, but more recently too with the Taliban destroying buddhist monuments, the destruction of ancient sites across Iraq and Afghanistan, by both sides, and now with the pulling down of confederate 'monuments'.
Do we allow the past to stand and instruct and to learn from? Or do we eradicate, sanitise, to be forgotten, only to see the mistakes repeated further down the line?
This has been mooted closer to home with suggestions on renaming streets in Liverpool that were named after slave traders. It wouldn't stop the historical fact that our city grew and benefitted from slavery.
Why the need to 'rewire' history?

A simple mantra I live by is "never destroy what you cannot create." it's something my dad told me, that at a stroke stopped me vaporising ants with a magnifying glass.

Eradicating historical evidence is wrong, uncivilised and barbaric. To assume the current is superior to what has been and what will come is arrogant and ill judged.

Take it away from open display by all means, catalogue it and put it into a museum, or storage, but never destroy what is a fragment of humanity in its unglamorous entirety.

 

[larbert toffee]

Lot of positive replies
Nothing negative considering the live wires on this site
Down to earth replies
I'm neutral on this subject

Resistance is futile, haven't you got an ohm to go to?

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Resistance is futile, haven't you got an ohm to go to?

Stop being an armature wind up merchant

 

[davek]

*glares at Shankly statue*

I'd drag that down and smack it with the soles of my shoes.

 

[ilikecheese]

Confederate statues have a place. A museum.

They have no place in public places or government buildings.

There is no rewriting of history by relocating them.

 

[Huyton Layne]

Confederate statues shouldn't have been erected in the first place. Could you imagine the Germans trying to build Nazi statues in the 60s or 70s to celebrate their history. Unjust losers don't get to celebrate.

 

[davek]

Do we allow the past to stand and instruct and to learn from? Or do we eradicate, sanitise, to be forgotten, only to see the mistakes repeated further down the line? This has been mooted closer to home with suggestions on renaming streets in Liverpool that were named after slave traders. It wouldn't stop the historical fact that our city grew and benefitted from slavery.
Why the need to 'rewire' history?

I can understand that p.o.v. from the Liverpool black community though.

There's a few statues in town dedicated to some iffy local politicians that should be melted down

 

[Seathestars]

Is there any proof that Hitler only had one bollock.

 

[degsy]

There seems to be an overt trend at the moment to wipe out elements of history just because it doesn't fit in with current morality and political views.
This isn't a new phenomenon, it was always done by conquering hoardes to eradicate cultures, the library at Alexandria is the biggest known occassion, but more recently too with the Taliban destroying buddhist monuments, the destruction of ancient sites across Iraq and Afghanistan, by both sides, and now with the pulling down of confederate 'monuments'.
Do we allow the past to stand and instruct and to learn from? Or do we eradicate, sanitise, to be forgotten, only to see the mistakes repeated further down the line?
This has been mooted closer to home with suggestions on renaming streets in Liverpool that were named after slave traders. It wouldn't stop the historical fact that our city grew and benefitted from slavery.
Why the need to 'rewire' history?

There are bigger problems than changing streets named after guys from 200yrs ago + the council are and have been, over the last 60 odd years knock down the actual building in those streets like nobodies business, so you'll be lucky to find any still standing.
The Architectural vandalism out weighs the weight of the old names on those streets, but not the sin that was slavery which can never be excused
Short version; move on.

 

[chrismpw]

Resistance is futile, haven't you got an ohm to go to?

You should be charged for that kind of talk I thus current climate.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Posted somewhere this morning, regarding the erecting of the monuments. All monuments are symbolic. Removal is rewiring (nb not rewriting) i.e. taking away direct links into cultural histories, and their symbolism and representation, this tends to prevent questioning or examining historical events.
History is written by the victorious, allegedly, but everything is conquered at some point and changed. But that is natural development and progress, this all seems a bit agenda driven.

Yes, it is. That's exactly correct. Did you know that most monuments were built in the 1950s and 1960s? Why were these built 100 years after the end of the Civil War? Why were these built during the Civil Rights movement, an era in which black Americans sought, and gained ground in reaching, basic equality with white Americans?

"Most of the people who were involved in erecting the monuments were not necessarily erecting a monument to the past," said Jane Dailey, an associate professor of history at the University of Chicago."But were rather, erecting them toward a white supremacist future."

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/54426...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future

If that's what you're after, then yes, let's hope that humanity continues to "rewire" history, insomuch as it desires to correct past inhumanities.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Exactly. While some US towns have taken down Confederate statues (amongst others) previously, it is notorious now as a backlash against Trump. Why weren't these statues hauled down during Obama's 8 year tenure? - because people feel they have to 'resist' the new President and the mob rules.

FFS, please read. This has been brewing for years.

2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter
2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

All of this occurred within the Obama presidency(-ies), and builds upon past incidents

Is anyone here old enough to remember 1991?



I don't remember anything pre-1980, but I've watched what's happened since then. And I'll listen closely when men and women who experienced the 1960s tell me what has improved, and not, since then.

Also, this is all in the US. If you live somewhere else, you've got your own (similar) issues to sort out. South Africa has made great progress, but let's not dumbly think their issues are resolved.

And have the English quit throwing bananas at footballers? Have they stopped making racist sounds and chants (let's forget nationalistic racism, what about black Englishmen)?

Yeah, it's not an issue any more is it?

 

[SerenityNigh]

Confederate statues have a place. A museum.

They have no place in public places or government buildings.

There is no rewriting of history by relocating them.

I've still not gotten any warm and fuzzy support for my idea to put up statues of Jim Crow lynchings, hangings, beatings and murders next to the confederate monuments. If we're "preserving history," let's at least get the history of the white American correct.

But in Mississippi, a monument to Emmett Till, a black man murdered by white Mississippians, was defaced again, this time they literally tried to erase it.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/27/534540400/emmett-till-sign-vandalized-again

 

[Deleted member 28206]

There seems to be an overt trend at the moment to wipe out elements of history just because it doesn't fit in with current morality and political views.
This isn't a new phenomenon, it was always done by conquering hoardes to eradicate cultures, the library at Alexandria is the biggest known occassion, but more recently too with the Taliban destroying buddhist monuments, the destruction of ancient sites across Iraq and Afghanistan, by both sides, and now with the pulling down of confederate 'monuments'.
Do we allow the past to stand and instruct and to learn from? Or do we eradicate, sanitise, to be forgotten, only to see the mistakes repeated further down the line?
This has been mooted closer to home with suggestions on renaming streets in Liverpool that were named after slave traders. It wouldn't stop the historical fact that our city grew and benefitted from slavery.
Why the need to 'rewire' history?

@tommye is your man for this mate