Rewiring history..

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peteblue said:
George Washington owned slaves.......
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Sir John Gladstone, the father of PM William Gladstone (called the greatest PM by none other than Winston Churchill) owned slaves. He owned many slaves.

As a result of the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, elder Gladstone was paid £106,079 by the British government for the for the "loss of his property." In today's rate that works out to £83m.

Not to be deterred John Gladstone brought indebted indentured servants from India to work his Caribbean plantations and treated them as de facto slaves.

While it was good abolish slavery in Great Britain, the decision by the government to pay slave owners, and there were many that lived in Britain, not just the Caribbean, for their losses was a mistake in my opinion.
 
magicjuan said:
Why? What is grammatically wrong? I used rewiring particularly because it's not about the written word. So maybe you statement is contextually wrong instead? ;)
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There are two full stops in the title, meaning there's either one too many for a regular sentence end or one too few for an ellipsis. Not something you'd notice usually so takes proper dedication to grammar Naziing to spot even after a few passes
 
abelard said:
what history is erased by removing the statues from public places?

the statues themselves are an attempt to erase the horrific aspects of the past.
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Who made the statues, who's artistic flair and artisan skills went into its design and pride in manufacture. There will be people out there who used to say "your great great great granddad made that' and it was a source of pride to family members. You would just rip this small achievement out of their hands to score cheap pc/heart on your sleeve point. Little Johnny Reb will have nothing to tell his own kids......you heartless shower......
 
OldDominionBlue said:
Sir John Gladstone, the father of PM William Gladstone (called the greatest PM by none other than Winston Churchill) owned slaves. He owned many slaves.

As a result of the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, elder Gladstone was paid £106,079 by the British government for the for the "loss of his property." In today's rate that works out to £83m.

Not to be deterred John Gladstone brought indebted indentured servants from India to work his Caribbean plantations and treated them as de facto slaves.

While it was good abolish slavery in Great Britain, the decision by the government to pay slave owners, and there were many that lived in Britain, not just the Caribbean, for their losses was a mistake in my opinion.
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So £83M, barely the cost of a decent striker or half the cost of that kid Mbappe........
 
SpeedEFC said:
There are two full stops in the title, meaning there's either one too many for a regular sentence end or one too few for an ellipsis. Not something you'd notice usually so takes proper dedication to grammar Naziing to spot even after a few passes
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You are actually the grammar fuhrer................

.( the one I owed you)
 
peteblue said:
Who made the statues, who's artistic flair and artisan skills went into its design and pride in manufacture.
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peteblue said:
There will be people out there who used to say "your great great great granddad made that' and it was a source of pride to family members. You would just rip this small achievement out of their hands to score cheap pc/heart on your sleeve point. Little Johnny Reb will have nothing to tell his own kids......you heartless shower......
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I am formally and officially persuaded. I embrace your logic. It is inconceivable nay impossible for a man to pass down pride in his heritage without some sort of statue in every public place across the land. It simply cannot be done.

But why should only the American Confederates enjoy the succulent fruit of such public displays? I hereby propose that each and every creed, ethnicity, race, gender, language-group, and sect, be allowed to install a statue of its choosing, in every public space spanning the globe. Uzbeks! Swahili! Xhosa! Aleut! Maori! Siamese! Turkoman! Patagonian! Walloon! Florida Man! Tazbekistani! Bessarab! Pashtun! Martian! Wool!

Let us hoist one million erect statues in the name of heritage!

And when, as a result, public spaces the world over are all filled to bursting with statues from every hue of the great human rainbow, and we are forced, for spacial consideration, to install, directly outside your bedroom window, so that young Bruxellois, Brusselaars, and Brusseleirs the world over may some day honour proud and noble mother Brussels, a statue of EU architect Jean Monnet, designed by the same young Donatello "who's artistic flair and artisan skills went into the design and pride in manufacture" of the gleaming KKK commemoration posted above, I dare to you venture forth so much as an infintessimal dust speck of dissent, grandpa @peteblue , for then we shall indeed learn who is the real racist heartless shower.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
 
abelard said:
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I am formally and officially persuaded. I embrace your logic. It is inconceivable nay impossible for a man to pass down pride in his heritage without some sort of statue in every public place across the land. It simply cannot be done.

But why should only the American Confederates enjoy the succulent fruit of such public displays? I hereby propose that each and every creed, ethnicity, race, gender, language-group, and sect, be allowed to install a statue of its choosing, in every public space spanning the globe. Uzbeks! Swahili! Xhosa! Aleut! Maori! Siamese! Turkoman! Patagonian! Walloon! Florida Man! Tazbekistani! Bessarab! Pashtun! Martian! Wool!

Let us hoist one million erect statues in the name of heritage!

And when, as a result, public spaces the world over are all filled to bursting with statues from every hue of the great human rainbow, and we are forced, for spacial consideration, to install, directly outside your bedroom window, so that young Bruxellois, Brusselaars, and Brusseleirs the world over may some day honour proud and noble mother Brussels, a statue of EU architect Jean Monnet, designed by the same young Donatello "who's artistic flair and artisan skills went into the design and pride in manufacture" of the gleaming KKK commemoration posted above, I dare to you venture forth so much as an infintessimal dust speck of dissent, grandpa @peteblue , for then we shall indeed learn who is the real racist heartless shower.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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Excellent, I'll do one of dopey the frog.......
 
Thought this was an excellent statement by the American Historical Association statement on Confederate monuments
https://www.historians.org/news-and...rotest/aha-statement-on-confederate-monuments
The American Historical Association welcomes the emerging national debate about Confederate monuments. Much of this public statuary was erected without such conversations, and without any public decision-making process.
...
Understanding the specific historical context of Confederate monuments in America is imperative to informed public debate. Historians who specialize in this period have done careful and nuanced research to understand and explain this context. Drawing on their expertise enables us to assess the original intentions of those who erected the monuments, and how the monuments have functioned as symbols over time. The bulk of the monument building took place not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but from the close of the 19th century into the second decade of the 20th. Commemorating not just the Confederacy but also the “Redemption” of the South after Reconstruction, this enterprise was part and parcel of the initiation of legally mandated segregation and widespread disenfranchisement across the South. Memorials to the Confederacy were intended, in part, to obscure the terrorism required to overthrow Reconstruction, and to intimidate African Americans politically and isolate them from the mainstream of public life. A reprise of commemoration during the mid-20th century coincided with the Civil Rights Movement and included a wave of renaming and the popularization of the Confederate flag as a political symbol. Events in Charlottesville and elsewhere indicate that these symbols of white supremacy are still being invoked for similar purposes.

To remove such monuments is neither to “change” history nor “erase” it. What changes with such removals is what American communities decide is worthy of civic honor.
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We also encourage communities to remember that all memorials remain artifacts of their time and place. They should be preserved, just like any other historical document, whether in a museum or some other appropriate venue. Prior to removal they should be photographed and measured in their original contexts. These documents should accompany the memorials as part of the historical record.

Decisions to remove memorials to Confederate generals and officials who have no other major historical accomplishment does not necessarily create a slippery slope towards removing the nation’s founders, former presidents, or other historical figures whose flaws have received substantial publicity in recent years. George Washington owned enslaved people, but the Washington Monument exists because of his contributions to the building of a nation. There is no logical equivalence between the builders and protectors of a nation—however imperfect—and the men who sought to sunder that nation in the name of slavery. There will be, and should be, debate about other people and events honored in our civic spaces. And precedents do matter. But so does historical specificity, and in this case the invocation of flawed analogies should not derail legitimate policy conversation.

Nearly all monuments to the Confederacy and its leaders were erected without anything resembling a democratic process. Regardless of their representation in the actual population in any given constituency, African Americans had no voice and no opportunity to raise questions about the purposes or likely impact of the honor accorded to the builders of the Confederate States of America. The American Historical Association recommends that it’s time to reconsider these decisions.
 
magicjuan said:
There seems to be an overt trend at the moment to wipe out elements of history just because it doesn't fit in with current morality and political views.
This isn't a new phenomenon, it was always done by conquering hoardes to eradicate cultures, the library at Alexandria is the biggest known occassion, but more recently too with the Taliban destroying buddhist monuments, the destruction of ancient sites across Iraq and Afghanistan, by both sides, and now with the pulling down of confederate 'monuments'.
Do we allow the past to stand and instruct and to learn from? Or do we eradicate, sanitise, to be forgotten, only to see the mistakes repeated further down the line?
This has been mooted closer to home with suggestions on renaming streets in Liverpool that were named after slave traders. It wouldn't stop the historical fact that our city grew and benefitted from slavery.
Why the need to 'rewire' history?
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Because Americans won't watch it unless it was America who did things like breaking the Enigma Code and stuff like that?
 
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