Reduction In Wage Bill

[Brennan]

For someone with a belief that the board could run the finances far better, he's spending significant time and effort arguing against specific concerns raised about the board. But maybe he's a little bit crazy like that ?

So he's crazy because he wants to maintain a balanced and well thought out opinion ?

Comments like that are why a lot of people don't take opposition of the board seriously.

 

[Neiler]

Me and you have gone back and forth on stuff like this in the past so we both know where we stand. Personally I doubt anything that's illegal or overly dodgy would be found. Just possibly something self-serving.

While clubs are being run into the ground and football is attracting Craig Whyte types I think fans of clubs should be asking thses questions.

Maybe self serving, but realisticaly I think your prob looking at bad decisions and planning rather then money being sky rocketed! I think assertions to the other are just frustration, it takes away focus from the nitty gritty of decisions were it really should be! For example a decision has been made this summer, that no one cottoned onto, which is abosolutley really poor from the club for me!

Lets be honest here people saying we have spent nothing on players isnt factual, that's not having a go, it's just if your accusing the club of taking money and saying we havnt spent, it's not actually true and as such if that's your point of view, it's not reality and figures and opinions are going to be skewed!

For example:

Jelavic 5mill
Gibbo 1 mill
Donavon 3mill
Strauq 1 mill
Pienaar 1 mill+
Drenthe 1+

Who knows what we spent on fees for Dier, Hanamann and Mcfadds.

 

[Chang Elephant]

So he's crazy because he wants to maintain a balanced and well thought out opinion ?

Comments like that are why a lot of people don't take opposition of the board seriously.

No silly. He's just a little bit crazy, that's all. Like you.

 

[pfim]

For someone with a belief that the board could run the finances far better, he's spending significant time and effort arguing against specific concerns raised about the board. But maybe he's a little bit crazy like that ?

I think the club could be run better, but that doesn't mean I think something nefarious is happening with the financials.

 

[mikewex]

For someone with a belief that the board could run the finances far better, he's spending significant time and effort arguing against specific concerns raised about the board. But maybe he's a little bit crazy like that ?

Without getting too narky about it, that is not what I said, it's what you have decided I said. And that in a nutshell is my problem with a lot of the received wisdom about the board.

 

[Deloodid]

Wouldn't trust that lot mate, if you want a more accurate report:

http://www.evertonforever1878.com/accounts/2011

i got a semi... is that bad?

 

[Chang Elephant]

I think the club could be run better, but that doesn't mean I think something nefarious is happening with the financials.

Do you ever wonder about the rationale for the gagging orders (Ross, Birch, Wyness, Gregg tec) and strict NDA's prospective buyers are asked to sign at an early stage ?

 

[Village Idiot]

Has the kipper disease arrived here - only rampantly anti-board views allowed, anything more balanced or trying to look at things from all angles will be tarred as pro-board, because that's the only way some people can cope with it?

Or has it been like that here all along?

 

[bflefc]

Respect to both Steken & Mikwex for some thoughtful, constructive posts in this thread. Analytical and challenging, without either feeling the need to stoop to childish sniping to score points.

Well in, lids.

 

[Goat]

Has the kipper disease arrived here - only rampantly anti-board views allowed, anything more balanced or trying to look at things from all angles will be tarred as pro-board, because that's the only way some people can cope with it?

Or has it been like that here all along?

There is no middle ground.

You either support the parasite destroying Our Club or you dont, simple choice.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Without getting too narky about it, that is not what I said, it's what you have decided I said. And that in a nutshell is my problem with a lot of the received wisdom about the board.

You said you "think the club could do far better". The thread context suggested you were talking about the board and finances etc. An easy mistake for which I totally apologise without reservation.

 

[davek]

Actually I'm more curious about why there was a drop in 2006, guessing it was something to do with winding down Bellefield. Its another one of those selective things. If you compare it to roughly where it was the year before you are talking an increase of say 5m. 1.5m of that is directly the cost of leasing Finch Farm. Thereafter you are talking about the maintenance of a vastly bigger setup (i believe 55 acres vs 8?), more modern, more high tech.

2004 12
2005 17.3
2006 16.4
2007 11
2008 21
2009 21
2010 23

Don't really see the controversy. Be nice to see a breakout, but its not exactly waving big red flags.

(btw, why "which you're happy to subtract from total operating costs to arrive at 'other operating costs'"? Its not that I'm "happy" to do it, it just is.



Yes, for example they could set up and a huge modern training centre for a start.

EDIT: actually I glossed over this a bit. Basically you are saying that teams have higher operating costs due to being more successful and different stadia requirements depending on the ground. This of course has an element of truth, however in some of the years that had spikes we had European commitments and we have a very old ground, with all the additional maintenance around that. The two clubs specified didn't have a lot of either. As an argument it actually makes the costs at Everton look better.



There you go, focused. However in the absence of fine detail, comparison with clubs of a similar size is all we have. And ALL substantiation so far, pack of an envelope so far as it is, is from my side. NOTHING other then gut feeling has been offered in defense of the accounts being dodgy. As always in these situations though the one doing the wild pronouncements is the one looking for evidence that he's wrong....

So until you can come with ANYTHING supporting your accusations, then yes, its bolloxology as far as I'm concerned.

From 2004, when other operating costs stood at £4.7M, it's now (2011) at £23.5M. A five-fold increase in seven years.

There's no explanation available from anyone concerning that hike over and above FF costs adding to it (itself a mystery wrapped in an enigma when the club veil exactly what's being paid for that warrants £38K per week for FF in a cloak of secrecy). Maybe Elstone can break down all his itemised list of charges and services for each year and show us how the rate of inflation has sky-rocketted the costs.

We're still unable to close that bolloxology case...unless you know where it all goes, eh?

 

[bourneblue]

There has always been an element of anti board posters,but since the demise of kipper this has become a deluge.
Given that GOT is now the biggest Everton forum on the net it has to be expected.
Hijacking of threads for a bout of Bill bashing has risen sharply too.

 

[davek]

There has always been an element of anti board posters,but since the demise of kipper this has become a deluge.
Given that GOT is now the biggest Everton forum on the net it has to be expected.
Hijacking of threads for a bout of Bill bashing has risen sharply too.

You must be aware of a different kipper to me. The one I knew was a swiirling maelstrom of 'not arsed' or pro-board sentiment. Not surprisngly really, given the main site's aim was to keep the club happy so they could get their noses stuck in the trough.

 

[mikewex]

You said you "think the club could do far better". The thread context suggested you were talking about the board and finances etc. An easy mistake for which I totally apologise without reservation.

Actually now that you post it I kind of get how you read it. Stick a then kenwright in there and it reads better.

Look, upshot is I think his ego gets in the way, the club are terrible communicators and he doesn't have the personal resources to get the club to where it needs to be.

Conversely and in general I think the board handles the very limited resources available adequately, wouldn't go anything above that.

But some of the positions that are taken against him are just self defeating. The other operating costs to me is a non issue. The agm issue was a case of a fans group badly overplaying their hand and losing. The tendency to intersperse every debate with the collected quotes of kenwright (boys pen, handlebars, watch this space and on and on) is childish and puerile beyond belief. There are several other urban kenwright tales that crop up regularly as well, and I distrust them too, mainly because of the nonsense above. I don't think the stories above hold water, why should I believe any of the others?