Reduction In Wage Bill

[davek]

Yes , but the books need to be opened right across the board imo , everthing laid on the table via a independent organization , as there is somthing in our financial set up that is and will continue (again imo) stopping any sort of takeover, and this obsession with Non disclosure agreements is only fueling that , If bill and the ppl running the club are transparent, and as they say everything is above board , they will have no problems in agreeing to this , its not like they haven't wasted millions on Pie in the sky stadium moves and other make believe builds, with logistics and design costs and everything else that goes with that stuff , so i`m sure a couple of hundred grand for everything to be laid out In Detail ,That puts everton fans & community`s concerns to rest

The concern as to why fans want to know a few anomalies in the accounts is not down to proving they're lining their pockets or doing anything dodgy...its down understanding how a midtable/top8 club comes in at a loss, increased its debt, sold all its assets etc without investing a penny towards it.

You can say, "we're one of the best ran clubs compared to x,y,z" but when you're still losing 5mill a year, which is being blamed on the fans for not turning up so players are being sold to service debt etc on the back of zero investment into the club, it doesn't add up.

It's like me buying a house, letting it deteriorate, but my out goings keep increasing and wanting to sell it on for more than I bought it for.

Agreed.

There's zero transparency. Of course, no business is going to be totally open about all its affairs, but there's certain things that are recurring at Everton year in, year out that require explaining - chief amongst them is this matter of Other Operating Costs. The CEO knows they stick out like a sore thumb because he tried (and failed) to tackle the issue. And not far behind that is the obscure nature concerning exactly who owns a quarter of this club's shares. BCR Sports are impenetrable because they choose to set up offshore. Leeds United fans took their club to task over it and got the Sports Minister to pressure Leeds to open the books on who owned Leeds from the BVI. The issue of shadow directors is one that needs to be addressed at Everton.

There's no redress or checks and balances at the club since the board and CEO took the unprecedented step of stopping AGMs after 118 years of unbroken time-line. It cant go on like this forever. Things dont add up and haven't for years. It's a busted flush of an organisation and the team is going to buckle under the pressure eventually and then things will come to a head.

 

[nigelcoyb]

Mikewex

"Threadbare cupboards? Yes it would seem so. But not sure how that changes the argument."

You then go on to defend the veracity of auditors which is unnecessary, criticism of Kenwright & co centres NOT on pilfering but the likely use of legit financial levers to their benefit not necessarily the clubs.

The "threadbare" comment is why this is an issue, if we were coining it nobody would give a monkeys who loaned to who, what the repayment terms are and why the cost of mowing fields rises exponentially in Speke.

It's at the heart of everything but the club won't answer questions the banning of AGM's, the only true accountability between fans and the board, just suggests something to hide.

I don't think you grasp this being more enamoured of doing the old Bull**** baffles brains routine, the biggest problems I have employing technical consultants is to get an answer in plain english, secondly is getting an answer that is useful.

 

[meagher94]

Obviously the price our owners are putting on Everton is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So what does everybody genuinely think it should be?

 

[davek]

Obviously the price our owners are putting on Everton is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So what does everybody genuinely think it should be?

Genuinely? They should walk away selling the club for a penny and letting someone else come in to shoulder the debt burden they've left it with and the cost of tackling our stadium issue. They've added zero value and made it worse than when they arrived. TV money merely pushing up the revenue increase.

 

[Village Idiot]

It's like me buying a house, letting it deteriorate, but my out goings keep increasing and wanting to sell it on for more than I bought it for.

All of which has been perfectly possible of course, for example in the housing market between 1995 and 2007.

 

[steken1]

Obviously the price our owners are putting on Everton is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So what does everybody genuinely think it should be?

There was a fella on toffeeweb who was a specialist in that area and he valued the club at between 0-50m based on whether the buyer would view the players as assets or liabilities.

 

[kenada_blue]

All of which has been perfectly possible of course, for example in the housing market between 1995 and 2007.

But the point being, you scrape and pay the mortgage on the house, burning money away as it becomes worthless as the years go by due to neglect. And then at some point you're in debt on your house in negative equity.

Two ways to survive...hope to sell it for more than its worth. Or invest in it to increases its value.

The board are taking on the former, losing money on the back on zero investment.

It's a concern. So why 23mill can't be fully disclosed when the club makes a loss is a good question to ask.

 

[Pabbers]

Something a Pompey coach said last night on talksport got me thinking.

The long term future of the club IS more important than the team finishing 7th next season, yes ??

The chap said :

"the club has been mis-managed from years ago. We had the chance to buy the training ground for £2 million, instead, the club purchased a right back"

Just made me wonder about our trainning ground !

 

[Neiler]

TBF Mike owns this thread - very good evidanced based points - anything in rebuttal has just been rhethoric really, no ones been able to counter any of his points just soap boxed up emotitive speeches with very bare all fact when it comes to the finances.

 

[davek]

TBF Mike owns this thread - very good evidanced based points - anything in rebuttal has just been rhethoric really, no ones been able to counter any of his points just soap boxed up emotitive speeches with very bare all fact when it comes to the finances.

Worst wind up ever.

 

[steken1]

TBF Mike owns this thread - very good evidanced based points - anything in rebuttal has just been rhethoric really, no ones been able to counter any of his points just soap boxed up emotitive speeches with very bare all fact when it comes to the finances.

Mike had advocated asset stripping a business to pay down debt.

Mike has suggested the OOC is easil explained away and is plausible in comparison to other clubs. This completely ignores that both clubs,Villa and Sunderland, have invested heavily in players and infrastructure.

Agents fee's alone could add £10m to each of those sides OOC. The same can't be said of Everton, no matter what way you would like to dress up our pathetic transfer acitivity.

Mike has also suggested he feels the club's finances are managed in an adequate fashion.

This ignores
-We had a net asset position of 22m when Bill took over, it's now -45m

-Bill's net transfer spend is now under £10m for the same period

-We recieved no up front payment for our new kit manufacture deal, only 'marketing opportunities'. Villa recieve around £5m P.A

-Our ability to generate additional income from this area has been sold off to kitbag for around £3m P.A, for at least another 7 years. A clear and obvious issue for anybody hoping to take over the club and generate income

-We cannot hope to take advantage of any commercial opportunites that may arise around our ground as it has 18 separate mortgages on it and we cannot gain permission from the deed owners.

-In ground we rely on Sodexho ton deliver all hospitality based services, they derive a significant income from this that could be ours. Again we are tied in to this deal for some time.

Mike had raised some good and fair points in regards to the OOC but by no means has he explained them away.

Football is a fast moving business that by it's nature is in a constant state of flux. Clubs that are on the market to be sold do not enter into long term contracts that would limit the ability to generate income or take advantage of any opportunities that may arise due to an increase in visibility. This one has.

OOC is just one of a myriad number of issues a good number of fans have with the organisation that runs our club. If it was explained away tomorrow I 'd still wan't them out the door ASAP.

 

[Cena]

Mike had advocated asset stripping a business to pay down debt.

Mike has suggested the OOC is easil explained away and is plausible in comparison to other clubs. This completely ignores that both clubs,Villa and Sunderland, have invested heavily in players and infrastructure.

Agents fee's alone could add £10m to each of those sides OOC. The same can't be said of Everton, no matter what way you would like to dress up our pathetic transfer acitivity.

Mike has also suggested he feels the club's finances are managed in an adequate fashion.

This ignores
-We had a net asset position of 22m when Bill took over, it's now -45m

-Bill's net transfer spend is now under £10m for the same period

-We recieved no up front payment for our new kit manufacture deal, only 'marketing opportunities'. Villa recieve around £5m P.A

-Our ability to generate additional income from this area has been sold off to kitbag for around £3m P.A, for at least another 7 years. A clear and obvious issue for anybody hoping to take over the club and generate income

-We cannot hope to take advantage of any commercial opportunites that may arise around our ground as it has 18 separate mortgages on it and we cannot gain permission from the deed owners.

-In ground we rely on Sodexho ton deliver all hospitality based services, they derive a significant income from this that could be ours. Again we are tied in to this deal for some time.

Mike had raised some good and fair points in regards to the OOC but by no means has he explained them away.

Football is a fast moving business that by it's nature is in a constant state of flux. Clubs that are on the market to be sold do not enter into long term contracts that would limit the ability to generate income or take advantage of any opportunities that may arise due to an increase in visibility. This one has.

OOC is just one of a myriad number of issues a good number of fans have with the organisation that runs our club. If it was explained away tomorrow I 'd still wan't them out the door ASAP.

 

[Del]

Steken is the master and commander of this thread

 

[kenada_blue]

Mike had advocated asset stripping a business to pay down debt.

Mike has suggested the OOC is easil explained away and is plausible in comparison to other clubs. This completely ignores that both clubs,Villa and Sunderland, have invested heavily in players and infrastructure.

Agents fee's alone could add £10m to each of those sides OOC. The same can't be said of Everton, no matter what way you would like to dress up our pathetic transfer acitivity.

Mike has also suggested he feels the club's finances are managed in an adequate fashion.

This ignores
-We had a net asset position of 22m when Bill took over, it's now -45m

-Bill's net transfer spend is now under £10m for the same period

-We recieved no up front payment for our new kit manufacture deal, only 'marketing opportunities'. Villa recieve around £5m P.A

-Our ability to generate additional income from this area has been sold off to kitbag for around £3m P.A, for at least another 7 years. A clear and obvious issue for anybody hoping to take over the club and generate income

-We cannot hope to take advantage of any commercial opportunites that may arise around our ground as it has 18 separate mortgages on it and we cannot gain permission from the deed owners.

-In ground we rely on Sodexho ton deliver all hospitality based services, they derive a significant income from this that could be ours. Again we are tied in to this deal for some time.

Mike had raised some good and fair points in regards to the OOC but by no means has he explained them away.

Football is a fast moving business that by it's nature is in a constant state of flux. Clubs that are on the market to be sold do not enter into long term contracts that would limit the ability to generate income or take advantage of any opportunities that may arise due to an increase in visibility. This one has.

OOC is just one of a myriad number of issues a good number of fans have with the organisation that runs our club. If it was explained away tomorrow I 'd still wan't them out the door ASAP.

K.OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo......

 

[Brennan]

Mike had advocated asset stripping a business to pay down debt.

Mike has suggested the OOC is easil explained away and is plausible in comparison to other clubs. This completely ignores that both clubs,Villa and Sunderland, have invested heavily in players and infrastructure.

Agents fee's alone could add £10m to each of those sides OOC. The same can't be said of Everton, no matter what way you would like to dress up our pathetic transfer acitivity.

Mike has also suggested he feels the club's finances are managed in an adequate fashion.

This ignores
-We had a net asset position of 22m when Bill took over, it's now -45m

-Bill's net transfer spend is now under £10m for the same period

-We recieved no up front payment for our new kit manufacture deal, only 'marketing opportunities'. Villa recieve around £5m P.A

-Our ability to generate additional income from this area has been sold off to kitbag for around £3m P.A, for at least another 7 years. A clear and obvious issue for anybody hoping to take over the club and generate income

-We cannot hope to take advantage of any commercial opportunites that may arise around our ground as it has 18 separate mortgages on it and we cannot gain permission from the deed owners.

-In ground we rely on Sodexho ton deliver all hospitality based services, they derive a significant income from this that could be ours. Again we are tied in to this deal for some time.

Mike had raised some good and fair points in regards to the OOC but by no means has he explained them away.

Football is a fast moving business that by it's nature is in a constant state of flux. Clubs that are on the market to be sold do not enter into long term contracts that would limit the ability to generate income or take advantage of any opportunities that may arise due to an increase in visibility. This one has.

OOC is just one of a myriad number of issues a good number of fans have with the organisation that runs our club. If it was explained away tomorrow I 'd still wan't them out the door ASAP.

Completely false. The club can make commission from kit sales and as a result of the Nike deal have to sell far less kits before they start making said commission.