Reality check: are we small-time?

[jamieni]

Big club, good fan base, great history. Been run by idiots for years!

 

[Arteta2391]

who cares, Everton is my club.

 

[ijjysmith]

who cares, Everton is my club.

Exactly

 

[steken1]

Wait until we smash everyone next season, our fans all go off their tits cos we've got a manager who gets us and plays the right way all the time, we score 1 and then go for 2 then 3 then 4 then concede cos were not that good then win a boss shiny cup and we outsing whoever we play at wembley and we all feel dead proud to be blue and we all love each other again. Just wait!

 

[dholliday]

I don't think there'll be any significant change until the owners' valuation is lowered. For them to expect £130-150m six years after Robert Earl was able to buy 23% for £7m is utterly absurd, especially when you consider the nonexistent input of the majority shareholders.

Good point. If we go with my plan (the new Chief Exec, Director & Manager working in tandem to improve our status) then we could say the Chief Exec's first brief is to lower the valuation of the club. Which sounds a bit paradoxical, but might work in the longer run.

We haven't won anything for years which makes us small time in today's game but other clubs that are considered big in this day and age likes Spurs and Newcastle haven't won anything either. I think since the Premier League began Spurs have won the League Cup and Newcastle have won nothing.

Spurs are regularly qualifying for Europe now, and have had a better calibre of player attracted to them: Modric, Van der Vaart and they've still kept Bale. And they attracted AVB, one of the hottest managers in the game. Newcastle pack 20,000 more fans in their stadium than ours, but apart from that I'd day we're on par with them...but not with Spurs.

Spurs are a really good example of how you can improve your club's status by clever management. Daniel Levy's done a sterling job there. We should be able to do just as well.

who cares, Everton is my club.

Exactly

Replies like this are inane and have nothing to do with the discussion.

It's not a my-dad's-better-than-your-dad debate. It's not a we-love-everton-no-matter-what thread either. We all love Everton no matter what, but we're discussing real-world things here: like how others perceive us, and how we can shape this to our advantage.

Wait until we smash everyone next season, our fans all go off their tits cos we've got a manager who gets us and plays the right way all the time

You know what? This might not be far from the truth. If we get a manager in who makes us play positively, pro-actively, then we might not need to think about improving our club's status, as on-the-field we end up qualifying for Champs League anyway. And regular Group Phases of that tournament will sort us out status-wise.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Brendan Rodgers though

 

[dholliday]

Brendan Rodgers though

Yep. He won the monster "who do we want as next manager?" poll we did after he finished his first Swansea Prem season.

He was voted by hundreds of blues, and Lambert was second. Obviously once Brenda was confirmed kopite manager that thread died an embarrassing death.

What does that tell you about not just our perceived status from the outside, but also our perceived status from within our own fanbase?


I like how the last few posts have been going. It's like with any issue:

- stage 1: identify problem, and admit it exists
- stage 2: discuss why it exists
- stage 3: discuss ways to improve it
- stage 4: recognise which ways are improving the issue
- stage 5: recognise that the issue is now better than it was at stage 1


So...for much of this thread's life we were stuck at stage 1, but now at least we're broaching stages 2 & 3.


Progression, lads!

 

[dholliday]

Spurs are regularly qualifying for Europe now, and have had a better calibre of player attracted to them: Modric, Van der Vaart and they've still kept Bale.

Bale signs for Spurs for 150k per week:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/20/gareth-bale-tottenham-contract


Big-time is making sure you keep your best player?

To be fair, Arsenal, Liverpool & Man Utd have all in recent years sold their best player, and not been very clever with the funds it raised (RVP, Torres, C.Ronaldo). So this particular example is maybe not a solid one.

 

[Azzurri]

Yep. He won the monster "who do we want as next manager?" poll we did after he finished his first Swansea Prem season.

He was voted by hundreds of blues, and Lambert was second. Obviously once Brenda was confirmed kopite manager that thread died an embarrassing death.

What does that tell you about not just our perceived status from the outside, but also our perceived status from within our own fanbase?


I like how the last few posts have been going. It's like with any issue:

- stage 1: identify problem, and admit it exists
- stage 2: discuss why it exists
- stage 3: discuss ways to improve it
- stage 4: recognise which ways are improving the issue
- stage 5: recognise that the issue is now better than it was at stage 1


So...for much of this thread's life we were stuck at stage 1, but now at least we're broaching stages 2 & 3.


Progression, lads!

Nothing

 

[dholliday]

Nothing

Not quite nothing.

What Spurs securing Bale's services tells us is that we have to keep our best players.

Baines created 116 goalscoring chances this season, 12 more than any other player in the Premier League.

We can't afford to let a player like that go. Give him 100k if need be. Then focus the summer on getting a world-class striker who'll put away those chances.

Think Big!

 

[Portland Toffee]

SPOT ON!

Not quite nothing.

What Spurs securing Bale's services tells us is that we have to keep our best players.

Baines created 116 goalscoring chances this season, 12 more than any other player in the Premier League.

We can't afford to let a player like that go. Give him 100k if need be. Then focus the summer on getting a world-class striker who'll put away those chances.

Think Big!

 

[Chang Elephant]

Think Big!

Brendan Rodgers !

Currently at a struggling club below Everton, but acknowledged within the game as a master tactician and motivational speaker

 

[Jeff Jones]

In fact, it was originally the G 14 but later became the G 18.

It was a self appointed elite which had been the most successful in domestic and European competition, in and around the 80's

I had to do a search myself to get the detail, and Wikipedia claims that the group was originally established in 2000.

My memory of it is that some, if not all of these clubs, long before 2000, had been threatening to break away from their domestic leagues and form a European Super League. It is thought that the formation of the Premier League under the auspices of the FA, replacing the old Football League run First Division was designed, with the added incentive of Sky money, to persuade the English clubs not to pursue that path.

Actually, having had another look, most of those clubs are still in fairly good nick, but some have had their ups and downs. Mainly those from leagues which aren't dominated year on year by two clubs.

Google G 14 and decide for yourself which clubs were recently, but are no longer big clubs. God, I hate that expression.

Btw, I support your three point plan to return Everton to 'big club' status, but I don't know how it could be brought about - surely there would have to be voluntary resignations - and even then there would need to be a substantial injection of
money. Not easy,I don't think.

 

[dholliday]

I support your three point plan to return Everton to 'big club' status, but I don't know how it could be brought about - surely there would have to be voluntary resignations - and even then there would need to be a substantial injection of
money. Not easy,I don't think.

Yes, they'd have to be voluntary resignations and devaluations.

I don't think we'd need that much money. Just to pay 3 top people and any extra staff they might need. The total outlay when totting up everyone's salaries of the new people over say 3 years would equal one Bily, probably. So well worth it.

First job for the Chief Exec: find a way to reduce the supposed value of the club from 125m to around 80m. From there only accept potential buyers that can offer a Levy-type plan (support stadium, corporate & marketing development with clever financing).

I'm sure Goodison can be developed, most old stadiums of the world have been developed to fit more capacity or improve views. It would mean closing it for 2 or 3 years, sharing with Anfield during that time...but it would be worth it. We should keep the prices as close to as is as possible, but with an extra 10k seats, including corporate boxes, and no more obstructed views, that should work itself out after a few active years. We've just not had clever people looking into this (Kirkby project was a disaster, how did they not foresee that being declined?).

All this would be behind-the-scenes. The actual football on the pitch we will do what we normally do, try to at least remain best-of-the-rest while going for a European place and cup run.

By the time the corporate strategy is paying off, we should find ourselves in a better position to offer higher wage bills and bigger transfer fees.


Basically, the problem we've had is that our focus of the last 10 years has been:

- our Chairman, manager and captain repeatedly telling the fans and media that we're over-achieving...this is then interpreted as "small-time", and is reflected in the calibre of investors, managers and players we are able to attract.


For the next 10 years, our focus should be:

- our Chairman, manager and captain repeatedly telling the fans and media that we're under-achieving...that we're aiming to rejoin the table of elite clubs at the top, and that this is obvious because of the new corporate strategies. This will eventually be interpreted as "big-time", and will be reflected in the calibre of investors, managers and players we're able to attract.


Perception of status counts for a lot. So our focus should be on not just changing it for real, but making sure everybody knows we're changing it for real.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Perception of status counts for a lot. So our focus should be on not just changing it for real, but making sure everybody knows we're changing it for real.

But everyone knows to start this off we need to secure the services of Brendan Rodgers as our next manager. He looked swell on that wonderful channel 5 documentary.