Premier league domination

[jonnyboy316]

I could not understand why premier league clubs would ever go for this. We have the dominant product. I actually think fans of clubs like United and the RS would not be happy at all about the marginalising of our domestic league. I actually think if it came to it the EPL could more than hold its own against a breakaway European super league made up of Europe’s other top leagues

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Yes all the teams and not just in the prem, but in Spain and Italy etc too, look for the top managers to coach them so they can attract the top stars from around the world.

It is a business and teams want the best talent available to increase their chances. Spurs have the largest home grown number in Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Dele Ali, Kieran Trippier, Danny Rose and Eric Dier when all are fit but most sides haven't that many.

The English, Spanish etc.. clubs do have a tradition and identity associated with the city or town where they were founded and their support is mostly based in their home location supplemented with the worldwide support that massive clubs now enjoy, their traditions go back long before the influx of overseas stars to all the major European teams.

Most clubs have an identity and heritage which is integral to the club, and the city or town where they play is integral to that. The current personnel in all major clubs is multinational, but the club is very much part of the heritage and culture of the place where it is based. It's wrong to try and separate it from that culture in that now the players aren't English or from Liverpool, London or even Barcelona.

To me the idea clubs traditions and identities are not being lost does not hold water. What is left - nostalgia for the old days? Look at Man Utd - the world’s biggest club, but one which is just a commercial venture. Matt Busby is no doubt spinning in his grace at what his club has become.

Even with us, there is no way that same bond between the fans and the players that we used to have as recently as the Moyes era.

It is not as easy to identify with a team owned by an Iranian billionaire, managed by a Dutchman and a Portuguese and staffed with players from all over the world.

 

[4737carlin]

As one of the journalists said recently (Sam Wallace)

Shameful Champions League proposals backed by Barcelona are rife with self-interest and would stifle evolution

Quoting....

'Clubs like Barcelona think they need this new Champions League more than ever. This closed-shop, de facto European super league by the back door; this made-for-television, new-markets conquering, big football, big greed, destruction of the last vestiges of a beautiful, original idea.

Barcelona do not have as much money as they would like. They do, however, have the highest annual wage bill in European football, at €639 million. They have an agreement to sign Frenkie De Jong, one of the standout talents of this season’s Champions League. Like Real Madrid, short on cash, committed on wages,'

I add....

They see the mega billion premier league TV deals and see a chasm growing ever wider, they need to stop the premier league juggernaut in its tracks, to take away it's giants and tie them to their new league, the league where they get a huge share of revenue too, to promote themselves while cutting off the source of major disadvantage.

The premier league may be on the verge of dominance, so time to act, to get even.

The fella from Juventus was all over this wanting it a few weeks ago once thy got knocked out, Barca will do the same. Smacks of them not being able to compete so they want to reinvent the playing field to help them.

I just hope the Premier League clubs realize they dont need it right now

 

[Yank]

I think it follows where the good managers are. When the prem had Pellegrini, Rodgers, Wenger (latter period) and Moyes at the CL clubs then we were poor in the competition.

Guardiola Klopp Pochettino Mourinho Conte Emery etc. Are some of the best managers in the world and have been in the prem the last few seasons. It’s no wonder that they’ve spent money better and attracted better players. They’re chasing each other upwards now rather than previous seasons where an arms race didn’t exist to win the title.

Teams across Europe aside from the Madrid clubs need to invest in top managers rather than just players. Valverde Allegri Tuchel Kovac etc. have built reputations on winning in one or two team leagues. I don’t think they’re good coaches though as they’re barely challenged domestically and are then ran over in Europe by premier league teams.

If I was a director at PSG, Barca Bayern or Juve I’d be on the phone to Conte or Mourinho begging them to manage them and giving hem whatever they wanted. Simply getting some bloke in a suit to keep Messi or Ronaldo happy isn’t enough anymore to beat the prem teams.

Maybe Conte... hard pass on Mourinho. Maybe he could fit in Germany given the culture but I don't think his style of play suits the game right now. I know the man had tremendous success. Juve could be an option too. But I don't see PSG or anywhere else a fit for him.

And Messi and Ronaldo were surrounded by quality in previous years. This year not as much. Barca and Real as much as I can't stand them have an allure to players not raised in England that the top teams in England simply don't have. Even the germans and Dutch want to go there. South Americans prefer their.

It's too bad Americans suck so bad because culturally they could be a great pipeline of talent drawn to English teams.

Dortmund played Bayern in 2013 in the final and I heard similar things. Then Germany won the world cup in 2014. Success is fleeting. Frankfurt out played Chelsea for the last 75 minutes. If Guardiola stays at City and the draws are right maybe you get it again. But I don't see an English final next year or dominance.

The most entertaining league is good enough for me and someone other than the RS or MUFC being in the final from England makes me happy.

 

[Yank]

I'd imagine the Messi/Ronaldo era of dominance is just about over. It's crazy that from 2008 until this season they've won 8 of now 12 Champions Leagues. Someone will have to fill the void and given the absurd amount of money and the already strong base of talent it isn't unreasonable for the Premier League to be the ones who step up.

I just hate whe tits like Lineker act like it's an English accomplishment. Teams bankrolled by Americans, Russians and Middle Easterners managed by Argentines, Spaniards, Germans and Italians and starring Egyptians, Belgians and Frenchman who play in an English city doesn't mean this is all because of English people you bells.

Mbappe will get out of France to one of the Spanish clubs and run it soon enough.

 

[BigDunc1985]

Juventus vs Madrid is a big deal because it doesn't happen a lot.

If it happens twice a year it'll lose it's luster.

 

[SantaClausisanEvertonian]

I could not understand why premier league clubs would ever go for this. We have the dominant product. I actually think fans of clubs like United and the RS would not be happy at all about the marginalising of our domestic league. I actually think if it came to it the EPL could more than hold its own against a breakaway European super league made up of Europe’s other top leagues

Great post Jb and I think you're spot on. The EFL has just had it's most successful season for many years and the remaining EPL clubs, if there was a breakaway, could definitely more than hold it's own alongside the rest of English football.
Every promotion race has been exciting as opposed to the two horse Premier League race and the tedious 'battle for Champions League spots'.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

To me the idea clubs traditions and identities are not being lost does not hold water. What is left - nostalgia for the old days? Look at Man Utd - the world’s biggest club, but one which is just a commercial venture. Matt Busby is no doubt spinning in his grace at what his club has become.

Even with us, there is no way that same bond between the fans and the players that we used to have as recently as the Moyes era.

It is not as easy to identify with a team owned by an Iranian billionaire, managed by a Dutchman and a Portuguese and staffed with players from all over the world.

To me the club's identity and heritage goes way beyond the management and personnel that happen to be there now, they will all move on, it's wrapped up in the city, the fans, it's history and culture not just the current players owner or manager, they've just got the stewardship at present, but as in generations before, they will pass it on.

 

[brieverton]

There is a school of thought that some form of closed shop Champions League or European Super League is inevitable but this talk has been floating about for more than 20 years. It hasn't happened because the money men, particularly at the PL clubs, realise what would have to be sacrificed to achieve it, not because they are not interested in principle.

Despite all the talk about TV money being the dominant force here, the simple truth is than fans of the elite clubs baulk at the prospect, because there can only be one title winner per year, and nothing else to "qualify" for other than some effectively mickey mouse World Club Cup that we have already. It would effectively turn elite European club football into a franchise model with no promotion or relegation. No doubt some would relish that, but some club has to finish 6th or 8th or 14th somewhere in a league table. That's where the whole logic caves in.

There would be no big "European nights" at the Pit if every home game was like that. I'm not saying they couldn't compete either, or the same for the other English clubs, though I'm desperately envious. Just you can't rip up the rule book and start again however much continental Europe wants it to happen.

It might happen eventually, but my guess is that even it if did, it wouldn't last long.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

To me the idea clubs traditions and identities are not being lost does not hold water. What is left - nostalgia for the old days? Look at Man Utd - the world’s biggest club, but one which is just a commercial venture. Matt Busby is no doubt spinning in his grace at what his club has become.

Even with us, there is no way that same bond between the fans and the players that we used to have as recently as the Moyes era.

It is not as easy to identify with a team owned by an Iranian billionaire, managed by a Dutchman and a Portuguese and staffed with players from all over the world.

Our last manager was English. Would you really want him back for the sake of identity?

 

[Chris O'Connor]

And Messi and Ronaldo were surrounded by quality in previous years. This year not as much. Barca and Real as much as I can't stand them have an allure to players not raised in England that the top teams in England simply don't have. Even the germans and Dutch want to go there. South Americans prefer their.

It's too bad Americans suck so bad because culturally they could be a great pipeline of talent drawn to English teams.

Dortmund played Bayern in 2013 in the final and I heard similar things. Then Germany won the world cup in 2014. Success is fleeting. Frankfurt out played Chelsea for the last 75 minutes. If Guardiola stays at City and the draws are right maybe you get it again. But I don't see an English final next year or dominance.

The most entertaining league is good enough for me and someone other than the RS or MUFC being in the final from England makes me happy.

A lot of the draw or pulling power of the huge Spanish giants is that they are not only massive clubs with impressive stadia and worldwide fan bases but that they've been incredibly successful over the last decade with star players who are household names not to mention Messi and Ronaldo.

It's perhaps then not surprising that success breeds success and wealth will invariably help create more wealth. They've boxed off their own separate tv deals which they aren't obliged to share with the rest of la liga and this puts them at a hugely advantageous position in relation to other Spanish clubs. The South Americans also have no language barrier, an added attraction for them.

If, as seems to possibly be the case, a period of far greater success for our top premier league clubs is upon us, perhaps brought about by the best available foreign coaches in Pep, Klopp and Pochettino etc but also recently Conté Mourinho and now Emery and Sarri (although very unpopular), bringing in the best talents from around Europe and marrying that continental know how and tactics to the greater intensity of the premier league, then this will make our clubs an even greater magnet for foreign superstars.

We have huge clubs, one of the recently less successful, Manchester United, still being financially amongst the very largest, but Liverpool too have history and now City are coming and contemporary powerful force, but their recent European success is nowhere near the Spanish giants, therefore these Spanish clubs atm are definitely a larger draw for most players.

This will change if the probable success of the premier league clubs lasts for any sort of period, as it may well be accompanied by a period of relatively less success for their previously dominant rivals.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Our last manager was English. Would you really want him back for the sake of identity?

No, but then he was never meant to be a long-term appointment

 

[Kippaxblues]

Sorry meant to add couldn’t post on the Liverpool thread may have had something to do with last week