Post Stoke game, Stick or Twist?

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Saint Domingo said:
We had three shots on target in the match. All three were the goals so excuse me for not quite agreeing with your assessment that this is attacking football not seen for decades at Goodison. I've seen a load of football attacking and defensive wise far better than what's currently being served up.

We are having periods of good attacking football but they are not lasting long and are not the norm currently.
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They do last long and they are the norm recently.

And there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever the football being played by Everton this season is the best we have seen in a generation.
 
We've got to be the neutrals favourite team to watch this season. He's just so naive, and whilst you can sit there all day and praise the attacking side of our game, it means very little when you score 6 against Bouremouth and Stoke and come out with a point.

I really like the bloke and think he was a massive breath of fresh air when he came in, that Christmas video did was testament to that. But he's got us underperforming massively.

Won't go anywhere under Bill, hopefully the yanks takeover happens and they see sense if nothing changes.
 
Why are we all blaming our defensive frailties on Martinez? Does nobody else think the players play a part in that? I agree we are poor at the back, and I agree that Howard is a major issue, but do we not think the defenders need to take more responsibility for how poor we are at the back?

I've seen people slagging off the formation here but is 4-2-3-1 really that bad? The only thing that I personally don't think fits is he team selection for the left side (i.e. Kone).
 
Ok clattenbergs a [Poor language removed]+1/2 , but come on Leicester then stoke at home and not just sneaky 1-0s for them,these clubs done their homework on us .Watched RMs interview on motd ,embarrassing,he won't get sacked ,or I believe he won't,so unfortunately we're stuck with him.Those who go to the games will just have to get behind the team,no doubt they'll hear the mutterings and boos,just back the players.
 

ToffeeTownMilto said:
Why are we all blaming our defensive frailties on Martinez? Does nobody else think the players play a part in that? I agree we are poor at the back, and I agree that Howard is a major issue, but do we not think the defenders need to take more responsibility for how poor we are at the back?

I've seen people slagging off the formation here but is 4-2-3-1 really that bad? The only thing that I personally don't think fits is he team selection for the left side (i.e. Kone).
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Is Kone not there to protect the left back?
 
Not going to get involved in the nitty gritty of the "what if the ref did this", the facts are Stoke City have just scored 4 at Goodison. Last week Leicester smashed 3 in at Goodison. Two real heavyweights of the English game. The team looks like falling apart every time a team goes on the attack. Stones and Funes Mori aren't a great cb combination, both have a couple of mistakes a game in them. The central midfielders offer little to no protection of the backline, and the less said about the goalkeeper the better. If the manager cannot eradicate the constant errors we make against teams on the break or from set plays then we will always struggle playing the way we do. I'd give him till the end of the season. Without a big upturn in results then I'd get rid, sorry Roberto but 11/12th with this squad is not acceptable.
 
Khalekan said:
They do last long and they are the norm recently.

And there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever the football being played by Everton this season is the best we have seen in a generation.
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Based on what exactly? I've just said we mustered three shots on target at home to Stoke, 11 of 19 games this season we've scored one or less. 'Football' is also a multifaceted term encompassing both defensive and attacking aspects. I know like Martinez it's popular to ignore half the equation but you cannot say that a side who has conceded an average of 2 goals per game at home and is 11th in the table is playing the best football of a generation, they struggle with 50% of the game!

All this talk of 'the best attacking football in the league' only came about after the Subderland and Villa games. People seem keen to ignore the first quarter of the season where we got battered by poor United and City sides at home, scraped a draw v Watford, were toothless v Liverpool, Spurs and Swansea.

This great attacking football has occurred in certain spells of certain games. It has certainly not been a constant. The Norwich second half for example we were terrible, as we were against Bournemouth second half.
 

Dymak said:
Moyes was operating under far more difficult conditions than Martinez has been. No doubt about it.
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he also operated on a dont lose first and hopefully snatch a goal, % football, basis which you have to admit should be easier to implement than attacking positive football?

given that, I still say more time is needed.

It would be nice if the posters raging about our defensive record could at least add the context of how relatively inexperienced our back line has been for much of the season. two youngsters and a premiership newbie.
 
wainy said:
Not going to get involved in the nitty gritty of the "what if the ref did this", the facts are Stoke City have just scored 4 at Goodison. Last week Leicester smashed 3 in at Goodison. Two real heavyweights of the English game. The team looks like falling apart every time a team goes on the attack. Stones and Funes Mori aren't a great cb combination, both have a couple of mistakes a game in them. The central midfielders offer little to no protection of the backline, and the less said about the goalkeeper the better. If the manager cannot eradicate the constant errors we make against teams on the break or from set plays then we will always struggle playing the way we do. I'd give him till the end of the season. Without a big upturn in results then I'd get rid, sorry Roberto but 11/12th with this squad is not acceptable.
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You'd get rid. The board won't mate.
 
bicycleheader said:
he also operated on a dont lose first and hopefully snatch a goal, % football, basis which you have to admit should be easier to implement than attacking positive football?
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That's your personal interpretation and description of Moyes' football, not everyone would agree with it. But if it's so much easier to implement, then maybe Martinez should give it a go sometime, as it may stop us from languishing in the bottom half of the league.
 
Dymak said:
That's your personal interpretation and description of Moyes' football, not everyone would agree with it. But if it's so much easier to implement, then maybe Martinez should give it a go sometime, as it may stop us from languishing in the bottom half of the league.
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to be honest I would have thought that was how most people would describe Moyes default setting? play to not concede first, then hope to nick it. obviously we had moments where we were more expansive but I dont think Id be alone in describing his tactics as that.

As for your second comment, well you know the answer to that. Its not how he wants to play or how he believes football should be played, which is fine by me. Just a pity things are not going so great currently but we will see where we are end of season or beyond.

Dont you think that logically, restricting space and playing the percentages is easier to implement than an expansive attacking style? Its certainly easier to get results with the former style which for me offsets somewhat this argument that Moyes squad was worse than what Martinez has had to work with.
 

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