6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Jacko93]

Is it just purely coincidence that everybody just happens to be holding off paying out after we get done. The way people have been going on, we've spent with reckless abandon while the league has been super frugal and saving for a rainy day.

The way the spending is looking this January, everybody is absolutely maxing out.

Not good for Chelsea though, they're surely relying on sales to get them through it.

 

[Storm_Cloud]

I have a feeling in the appeal they will allow enough of the mitigating amounts to be counted so the breach falls to £3-£4m and the deduction will be cut to 5 points. The second charge has to take account of the new view on mitigation so will be dropped.

Then they hope Forest survive their sanction, if they get one, then they change the rules to match UEFA and hope everyone forgets about the whole thing.

 

[Jim Kirk]

while there were some add backs in 2020 (not many I presume if there was only 3 months of Covid impact), how can we still be in breach with £139m of losses falling off the 3 year cycle and we were only £19.5m in excess with £139m?

Good question. There are only two possible answers to that, but unless your an Everton insider it's impossible to say which is accurate.

1 - Everton did not miss FFP by £19m, it missed by £250m and was allowed to write off a large portion of that under the FFP rules. As a result, the first possible answer is that a lot of the allowed write off fell into the year ending 2020 so losing that year off the calculation makes less difference than the raw numbers suggest.

2 - Second possibility is that 2023 accounts - which are currently not public and have only being shared with the premier league - are worse than expected. This would likely be a result of falling revenues. I'll link the deloitte money league to this post. Everton currently sit in 30th with just under 200m of revenue - down on the last few years and below such footballing giants as Palace, and even Leeds in the championship. This reduced revenue would have a direct impact on profitability (as costs are highly unlikely to have reduced in line with falling revenues). I think it can be summarised as the Usmanov effect - none of which will be deductible against FFP.

I'd guess that some kind of combination of the two is more likely, where Everton are in a position where the raw losses have reduced, but so have their mitigating arguments so the calculation that makes up the £105m losses over 3 years now contains less write offs under the rules. Until losses are reduced to below the average £35m per season allowed - and losses have been above that for 7 straight years, and a long way over it for most of those year - then there is always going to be a risk.

I hear that the rules are likely to change in line with UEFA though at the end of next season, which makes a lot of the above calculation irrelevant moving forward. I think that the UEFA rules are based on % of revenue dedicated towards wages, transfers and agent fee's (think the cap is 70%). Not that it is good news for Everton, as they are in even more of a difficult situation under those guidelines.

Deloitte Football Money League 2024

The 27th edition of the Deloitte Football Money League profiles the highest revenue generating clubs in world football over the 2022/23 season.

www2.deloitte.com

 

[matty1878]

Says Mr Sunshine

mine are real genuine everton ones

 

[matty1878]

I have a feeling in the appeal they will allow enough of the mitigating amounts to be counted so the breach falls to £3-£4m and the deduction will be cut to 5 points. The second charge has to take account of the new view on mitigation so will be dropped.

Then they hope Forest survive their sanction, if they get one, then they change the rules to match UEFA and hope everyone forgets about the whole thing.

but we’ll be ok? that’s all i want!

 

[matty1878]

He’s the king of it , Matty lad

i know i do but mine are everton gen!

 

[RD2910]

Good question. There are only two possible answers to that, but unless your an Everton insider it's impossible to say which is accurate.

1 - Everton did not miss FFP by £19m, it missed by £250m and was allowed to write off a large portion of that under the FFP rules. As a result, the first possible answer is that a lot of the allowed write off fell into the year ending 2020 so losing that year off the calculation makes less difference than the raw numbers suggest.

2 - Second possibility is that 2023 accounts - which are currently not public and have only being shared with the premier league - are worse than expected. This would likely be a result of falling revenues. I'll link the deloitte money league to this post. Everton currently sit in 30th with just under 200m of revenue - down on the last few years and below such footballing giants as Palace, and even Leeds in the championship. This reduced revenue would have a direct impact on profitability (as costs are highly unlikely to have reduced in line with falling revenues). I think it can be summarised as the Usmanov effect - none of which will be deductible against FFP.

I'd guess that some kind of combination of the two is more likely, where Everton are in a position where the raw losses have reduced, but so have their mitigating arguments so the calculation that makes up the £105m losses over 3 years now contains less write offs under the rules. Until losses are reduced to below the average £35m per season allowed - and losses have been above that for 7 straight years, and a long way over it for most of those year - then there is always going to be a risk.

I hear that the rules are likely to change in line with UEFA though at the end of next season, which makes a lot of the above calculation irrelevant moving forward. I think that the UEFA rules are based on % of revenue dedicated towards wages, transfers and agent fee's (think the cap is 70%). Not that it is good news for Everton, as they are in even more of a difficult situation under those guidelines.

Deloitte Football Money League 2024

The 27th edition of the Deloitte Football Money League profiles the highest revenue generating clubs in world football over the 2022/23 season.

www2.deloitte.com

Your point one doesn't make sense. They didn't miss anything by £250m (where's that number coming from anyway?) because deductions were allowed. Also, 2019/20 did not fall off the calculation, it's still the average of the two covid seasons.

 

[Jim Kirk]

Your point one doesn't make sense. They didn't miss anything by £250m (where's that number coming from anyway?) because deductions were allowed. Also, 2019/20 did not fall off the calculation, it's still the average of the two covid seasons.

Accounts published for the period ending June 2020 are falling off. The 2nd charge relates to account periods ending June 21, June 22 and June 23.

£250m is the amount Everton missed FFP by before allowable deductions during accounting periods 20, 21 and 22. The question was, if the June 20 period is now excluded and it was a large loss and replaced by the June 23 period - which is presumably lower - then how are Everton still failing to meet FFP if it only missed by £19m originally. The first point is saying that as we don't know specifically what allowable deductions fell into the accounting period ending June 20, we don't really know what is coming off the total losses. If a large chunk of the allowable losses fell into that period, which is now being removed for this 3 years cycle, then it would be one possible explanation as to why Everton continue to operate outside of the FFP framework.

I won't repeat it here, its long winded - but my original post detailed Everton's published account across the Moshiri ownership - which is where the £250m excess losses came from. All Everton's account posting are publicly available from companies house (just google Everton companies house) going back to when Noah was in short pants. If you read through them, it's very clear that the messaging that the club is putting out now about being compliant and this being somehow unfair is complete nonsense. Even Everton's auditors are telling them they are in serious trouble for christs sake - but they continue to ply fans with total horseshit. Everton's board have being criminally negligent in how they have run the club and brought it to the precipice of collapse, then tell the fans that everythings fine and its the PL that are being somehow unfair. Pages 12 and 13 of the June 22 accounts - auditors comments about Everton as an ongoing concern is frankly terrifying. In short, Everton are wholly reliant on Moshiri continuing to put money in to keep the lights on. Moshiri is now wholly reliant on Usmanov passing him the funds to do this. Usmanov is on the sanctioned list and can't do this anymore. Find a buyer who will commit to funding the club or go into administration. Don't take my word for it, just download the document and look for yourself, takes 2 minutes.

 

[RomanReigns]

Guys can we please stop saying I hope it gets reduced to 5 points or whatever

The sanction is ridiculous

If it gets reduced to 1 point I will still be fuming

Frothing with rage

There should be no points deduction

This is warped thinking to accept a small deduction as a compromise for a ridiculous sanction to begin with

We must appeal and clear our name and take it to the highest courts in the world until we get no points deducted

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Accounts published for the period ending June 2020 are falling off. The 2nd charge relates to account periods ending June 21, June 22 and June 23.

£250m is the amount Everton missed FFP by before allowable deductions during accounting periods 20, 21 and 22. The question was, if the June 20 period is now excluded and it was a large loss and replaced by the June 23 period - which is presumably lower - then how are Everton still failing to meet FFP if it only missed by £19m originally. The first point is saying that as we don't know specifically what allowable deductions fell into the accounting period ending June 20, we don't really know what is coming off the total losses. If a large chunk of the allowable losses fell into that period, which is now being removed for this 3 years cycle, then it would be one possible explanation as to why Everton continue to operate outside of the FFP framework.

I won't repeat it here, its long winded - but my original post detailed Everton's published account across the Moshiri ownership - which is where the £250m excess losses came from. All Everton's account posting are publicly available from companies house (just google Everton companies house) going back to when Noah was in short pants. If you read through them, it's very clear that the messaging that the club is putting out now about being compliant and this being somehow unfair is complete nonsense. Even Everton's auditors are telling them they are in serious trouble for christs sake - but they continue to ply fans with total horseshit. Everton's board have being criminally negligent in how they have run the club and brought it to the precipice of collapse, then tell the fans that everythings fine and its the PL that are being somehow unfair. Pages 12 and 13 of the June 22 accounts - auditors comments about Everton as an ongoing concern is frankly terrifying. In short, Everton are wholly reliant on Moshiri continuing to put money in to keep the lights on. Moshiri is now wholly reliant on Usmanov passing him the funds to do this. Usmanov is on the sanctioned list and can't do this anymore. Find a buyer who will commit to funding the club or go into administration. Don't take my word for it, just download the document and look for yourself, takes 2 minutes.

This just isn't right. 19/20 and 20/21 are averaged and count as one single year. So the three "years" related to the second charge are 19-21, 22, and 23. 18/19 is the season that drops off.

The covid years will drop off in the calculation for this season.

 

[Neiler]

The select committee getting involved in the sanctions policy is massive for us and our appeal. I sense Burnham has been making some calls.

Enjoy your kick in the nads D-ick.

 

[matty1878]

Enjoy your kick in the nads D-ick.

masters? do you think when it’s looked at on appeal they will go oops we’ve ballsed
this up

 

[Goat]

Still no club accounts published.

What are you hiding Everton?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Still no club accounts published.

What are you hiding Everton?

Usually have 9 months to file accounts with Co House

 

[cantlivewithem]

Accounts published for the period ending June 2020 are falling off. The 2nd charge relates to account periods ending June 21, June 22 and June 23.

£250m is the amount Everton missed FFP by before allowable deductions during accounting periods 20, 21 and 22. The question was, if the June 20 period is now excluded and it was a large loss and replaced by the June 23 period - which is presumably lower - then how are Everton still failing to meet FFP if it only missed by £19m originally. The first point is saying that as we don't know specifically what allowable deductions fell into the accounting period ending June 20, we don't really know what is coming off the total losses. If a large chunk of the allowable losses fell into that period, which is now being removed for this 3 years cycle, then it would be one possible explanation as to why Everton continue to operate outside of the FFP framework.

I won't repeat it here, its long winded - but my original post detailed Everton's published account across the Moshiri ownership - which is where the £250m excess losses came from. All Everton's account posting are publicly available from companies house (just google Everton companies house) going back to when Noah was in short pants. If you read through them, it's very clear that the messaging that the club is putting out now about being compliant and this being somehow unfair is complete nonsense. Even Everton's auditors are telling them they are in serious trouble for christs sake - but they continue to ply fans with total horseshit. Everton's board have being criminally negligent in how they have run the club and brought it to the precipice of collapse, then tell the fans that everythings fine and its the PL that are being somehow unfair. Pages 12 and 13 of the June 22 accounts - auditors comments about Everton as an ongoing concern is frankly terrifying. In short, Everton are wholly reliant on Moshiri continuing to put money in to keep the lights on. Moshiri is now wholly reliant on Usmanov passing him the funds to do this. Usmanov is on the sanctioned list and can't do this anymore. Find a buyer who will commit to funding the club or go into administration. Don't take my word for it, just download the document and look for yourself, takes 2 minutes.

But if you apply that same argument to all clubs in the Premier League then most clubs would have exceeded the 105 million in losses. All clubs had allowable expenses running in to millions. It is just that when Evertons allowable expenses were taken into account, they were still over by 19.5 million. when other clubs allowable expenses were taken into account they were under.

If you are going to use Evertons pre expenses figure of 250 million to make the losses seem a bigger figure you have to do the same with all clubs to bring it into context otherwise it becomes a nonsense assumption. Its like the assumption that Everton have exceeded P/L because they have spent loads of money on players when the reality is we have one of the lowest transfer spends in the premier league over the last 5 years