Player ratings vs Liverpool

[Ron Burgundy]

Howard 6 - Think he had a solid game, maybe could of done a little bit more for the first goal

Coleman 7 - Was always looking to make things happen. Would of been an 8 if he hadn't mis-timed his challenge for the first goal

Jagielka 8 - Had a good game

Distin 7 - Solid

Baines 7 - Looked his usual crafty self but fizzled out once we lost Mirallas

Mirallas 8 - Our star performer yesterday

Neville 6 - Did okay after being under scrutiny last few games, Silly dive

Osman 7 - Work his little heart off

Naismith 7 - Was a really good performance from him. I think he can do a job for us

Fellaini 7 - Put himself about but didn't bring his A-game. Not fault of his own though

Jelavic 5 - Poor by his standards. Should of buried his headed chance

 

[parkendmaster]

Howard 6
Coleman 7
Jagielka 7
Distin 6
Baines 7
Mirallas 8
Osman 8
Neville 6 (one point off for the dive)
Fellaini 6
Naismith 7
Jelavic 5

Gueye 5
Oviedo 6

 

[tim cahill]

All of that is complete blinkered bollocks, but I think I'll just argue with facts to save time:

Phil Neville - Passes: 52. Pass completion rate: 94%.

Compare that to Liverpools clearly talented midfield:

Joe Allen - Passes: 43. Pass completion rate: 86%.
Steven Gerrard: Passes: 39. Pass completion rate: 90%.
Nuri Sahin: Passes: 12. Pass completion rate: 58%.
Jonjo Shelvey: Passes: 21. Pass completion rate: 71%.

Either you're just lying, or you've got a very selective memory.

Interesting stats there. Where did you get those from? Know any of our other players stats?

 

[micknick]

All of that is complete blinkered bollocks, but I think I'll just argue with facts to save time:

Phil Neville - Passes: 52. Pass completion rate: 94%.

Compare that to Liverpools clearly talented midfield:

Joe Allen - Passes: 43. Pass completion rate: 86%.
Steven Gerrard: Passes: 39. Pass completion rate: 90%.
Nuri Sahin: Passes: 12. Pass completion rate: 58%.
Jonjo Shelvey: Passes: 21. Pass completion rate: 71%.

Either you're just lying, or you've got a very selective memory.

Was about to post this. He had a decent game but people score him down before hes even kicked a ball.

Alot of his passes were side ways but he kept the possession and the ball moving.

 

[Tubey]

All of that is complete blinkered bollocks, but I think I'll just argue with facts to save time:

Phil Neville - Passes: 52. Pass completion rate: 94%.

Compare that to Liverpools clearly talented midfield:

Joe Allen - Passes: 43. Pass completion rate: 86%.
Steven Gerrard: Passes: 39. Pass completion rate: 90%.
Nuri Sahin: Passes: 12. Pass completion rate: 58%.
Jonjo Shelvey: Passes: 21. Pass completion rate: 71%.

Either you're just lying, or you've got a very selective memory.

Are you seriously using 5 yard pass success rates as a measure of a successful game?

For example, Xavi had a pass rate of 65% ish for a recent game Barca won 5-0. He dominated the midfield with incisive passing and brilliant movement. But by your measure of success he had a crap game!

The stat means absolutely nothing. It's why we laugh at "Xavi Allen" and his "amazing passing skills".

Neville gave the ball away pretty much whenever he attempted a forward pass over 10 yards. I don't count recycled possession over 5 yards as a telling pass.

I stick entirely to what I said. The fact you've tried to use that stat as proof is laughable, sorry but it is.

 

[caught]

I think people have different interpretations of what the rating system implies. For me, a 5 should be a completely mediocre performance but not necessarily 'bad'. A 6 would mean that they did their job adequately and with no glaring errors. 7 - good, 8 - very good and did all that was asked of them to a very high level. A 9 should be reserved for someone who transcends their positional role and stands out as someone who influences the entire game. 10 should only be used for one-off, virtuoso performances. A 4 should suggest someone did not perform their role adequately, while a 3 should be reserved for a player who is largely inept from start to finish. Anything lower should only be used in rare situations.

Also, considering the nuanced method, .5 ratings are quite useful. Anyway...


Howard 5.5 - I don't blame him for either goal and had very little else to do

Coleman 6.5 - Partly to blame for the first goal but otherwise did well. Seems to be rapidly growing into the role, and it's such a relief to see a RB who's comfortable on the ball.

Jags 7.5 - Out of position for the second goal but very solid aside from that. His distribution seems much improved, too.

Distin 5 - Didn't make any big mistakes but looked very worried every time Suarez was near him (perhaps just for his heel). Shouldn't have been so easily turned by Suarez late on.

Baines 6.5 - Played fairly well, but I don't think he was as good as some others do. Set pieces were average, defended capably, provided a good attacking outlet in the second half when Gueye needed help.

Neville 6.5 - Dive aside, he had a good game. Showed up for his full backs, especially giving Coleman a regular option when he needed it. Passes were accurate.

Osman 8 - Very good game. Held the ball, moved into space, picked the right passes. A vital goal, too. MOM

Mirallas 7.5 - I was worried when he played himself into trouble and lost the ball early on, but he did some excellent things after that. His final balls weren't great, but the three or four occasions he worked his way into the penalty area were splendid.

Fellaini 5.5 - Understandably a little rusty. Gave away possession several times and didn't work as hard to win back a couple of loose balls. Still an important presence on the pitch.

Naismith 6.5 - Didn't see a great deal of the ball, but used it well when he had it. Timed his run for the goal perfectly.

Jelavic 5 - Worked hard but not much came off for him.

Subs: Gueye 5 - Seemed like the left side of the pitch was made of warm butter. Showed some neat touches and suggested good technical ability. Unfortunately, he shows poor decision making when he looks to take players on, as he isn't equipped to do it. Makes me feel like if he knew his own limitations he could be a useful player.

Oveido - Unfair to score him on only a few minutes, but he looks bright and tricky. Should've been the one to replace Mirallas.

 

[Mrk]

Interesting stats there. Where did you get those from? Know any of our other players stats?

All stats from the derby can be found here.

Are you seriously using 5 yard pass success rates as a measure of a successful game?

For example, Xavi had a pass rate of 65% ish for a recent game Barca won 5-0. He dominated the midfield with incisive passing and brilliant movement. But by your measure of success he had a crap game!

The stat means absolutely nothing. It's why we laugh at "Xavi Allen" and his "amazing passing skills".

Neville gave the ball away pretty much whenever he attempted a forward pass over 10 yards. I don't count recycled possession over 5 yards as a telling pass.

I stick entirely to what I said. The fact you've tried to use that stat as proof is laughable, sorry but it is.

Let's cut out the bollocks and go back to what you said: "[Phil Neville] never requested the ball, gave it away consistently" - this is what I was specifically responding to, so whether I thought he had a successful game or not does not matter here, you're trying to change the argument. Not happening.

I don't care about Xavi, once again, you're trying to change the argument, I'm talking about Neville.

Now we've got that out of the way, let's address the point 1) You said that Neville 'never requested the ball' - the fact that he made more passes than any other player bar Osman suggests that he clearly did.

2) You said, and I quote, "gave it away consistently" - please, in layman's terms, explain how completing 94% of passes is "[giving] it away consistently" - This I've got to hear.

You don't count a 5 yard pass a... errm... pass?. A pass is a pass regardless of it's direction or length, the job of a defensive midfielder is to keep the ball, nobody is suggesting that Neville is Xavi, but Neville did yesterday what Gibson is so good at, he got the ball and he kept possession - that was his job. To try and spin it any other way is laughable, to coin your slightly hilarious (not) phrase.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Neville gave the ball away pretty much whenever he attempted a forward pass over 10 yards. I don't count recycled possession over 5 yards as a telling pass.

I stick entirely to what I said. The fact you've tried to use that stat as proof is laughable, sorry but it is.

He's already given you the passing stats which shows he only gave the ball away 3 times in the entire match & yet you're still persevereing in trying to prove he was crap yesterday, when you're patently wrong.

He had a good game, used the ball well, kept possession, was positionally very good. It was his best performance of the season for me.

 

[davek]

I'm not sure we missed Pienaar in the match tbh (apart from the obvious lack of replacement for Mirallas when he got injured). I'm talking about this particular fixture, btw. I dont think he's a player for the Derby. I stand to be corrected, but personally I cant remember a decent match he's had in one. He's always been easily contained by them.

 

[Dom1878]

Howard - 6 - Didnt have that much to do really, made some good saves when he needed to, couldnt do much with the goals.

Baines - 8 - Almost got Sterling sent off, linked up well with a player he rarely links up with
Jags - 7 - Blocked a shot heading towards the goal, some good tackles - did look abit slow though
Distin - 6 - Had the pace to deal with a few players but could have done better.
Coleman - 7 - Love him at RB, sometimes marked quite poorly, but looked good going forward

Mirallas - 9 - Very skillful, had a lot of pace, and we completely changed when he went off at half time
Osman - 8 - Very good
Neville - 8 - Thought he was great first half, and in the second half he was still good, but was abit deeper than usual and that had an effect on the team as we had no pace.
Naismith - 7 - Scored, had some good touches but some didn't work out so good.
Fellaini - 6 - He was ok - but by his standards quite poor.

Jelavic - 5 - Don't really remember much of him, infact if Anichebe was on the bench I would have brought him on around 75 minutes. He didn't score, but still got in them positions, and had Naismith not scored - Jelavic was there to make sure it was a goal.

Gueye - 4 - Thought he was awful coming on. Tried basic skill and it didnt work for him, and he gave the ball away stupidly and it almost cost us.
Oviedo - 7 - Looked far better than Gueye on the left

 

[Dom1878]

I'm not sure we missed Pienaar in the match tbh (apart from the obvious lack of replacement for Mirallas when he got injured). I'm talking about this particular fixture, btw. I dont think he's a player for the Derby. I stand to be corrected, but personally I cant remember a decent match he's had in one. He's always been easily contained by them.

True, but so has Osman up until yesterday, we didn't miss him when we had Mirallas in the team, but did in the second half. We missed his movement and availability to be passed to, as we didn't have much pace upfront.

I think we would have won had he played though

 

[toffeejack]

I'm not sure we missed Pienaar in the match tbh (apart from the obvious lack of replacement for Mirallas when he got injured). I'm talking about this particular fixture, btw. I dont think he's a player for the Derby. I stand to be corrected, but personally I cant remember a decent match he's had in one. He's always been easily contained by them.

same was said of osman before yesterday, think pienaar would have had a good game up against the young wisdom, with mirallas attacking enrique then

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I'm not sure we missed Pienaar in the match tbh (apart from the obvious lack of replacement for Mirallas when he got injured). I'm talking about this particular fixture, btw. I dont think he's a player for the Derby. I stand to be corrected, but personally I cant remember a decent match he's had in one. He's always been easily contained by them.

I can't remember one either tbh, but what we lack when he's not playing is a high tempo imo. Pienaar's energy & workrate generally set the tone for our better performances. Miralles filled his boots brilliantly for 45 yesterday though, & I'm convinced we'd have won if the buck toothed racist hadn't looked to break his foot. But we'll never know..........

One other positive that's become apparent today, is that due to the fact that the shiite didn't get humped in the 2nd half yesterday, they're now even more convinced as to Rodgers genius. The fact that we lost our best player on the day at HT, the only one we had with any real pace & drive in the midfield, has escaped them. Brendan's now capable of tactical genius during the match in the land of the kopite. He's bought himself a bit more time, keep it going Brendan, you're on course to give Sourness a run for his money, as the best Liverpool manager of the modern era.

 

[davek]

I can't remember one either tbh, but what we lack when he's not playing is a high tempo imo. Pienaar's energy & workrate generally set the tone for our better performances. Miralles filled his boots brilliantly for 45 yesterday though, & I'm convinced we'd have won if the buck toothed racist hadn't looked to break his foot. But we'll never know..........

One other positive that's become apparent today, is that due to the fact that the shiite didn't get humped in the 2nd half yesterday, they're now even more convinced as to Rodgers genius. The fact that we lost our best player on the day at HT, the only one we had with any real pace & drive in the midfield, has escaped them. Brendan's now capable of tactical genius during the match in the land of the kopite. He's bought himself a bit more time, keep it going Brendan, you're on course to give Sourness a run for his money, as the best Liverpool manager of the modern era.

The difference between Mirallas and Pienaar is the former covers an awful lot of ground very quickly and he has good upper body strength. It frightened the life out of them and didn't allow them to set up to defend as they wanted.

I agree. Mirallas plays the second 45 minutes: we win.

 

[Tubey]

All stats from the derby can be found here.



Let's cut out the bollocks and go back to what you said: "[Phil Neville] never requested the ball, gave it away consistently" - this is what I was specifically responding to, so whether I thought he had a successful game or not does not matter here, you're trying to change the argument. Not happening.

I don't care about Xavi, once again, you're trying to change the argument, I'm talking about Neville.

Now we've got that out of the way, let's address the point 1) You said that Neville 'never requested the ball' - the fact that he made more passes than any other player bar Osman suggests that he clearly did.

2) You said, and I quote, "gave it away consistently" - please, in layman's terms, explain how completing 94% of passes is "[giving] it away consistently" - This I've got to hear.

You don't count a 5 yard pass a... errm... pass?. A pass is a pass regardless of it's direction or length, the job of a defensive midfielder is to keep the ball, nobody is suggesting that Neville is Xavi, but Neville did yesterday what Gibson is so good at, he got the ball and he kept possession - that was his job. To try and spin it any other way is laughable, to coin your slightly hilarious (not) phrase.

It suggests he played central midfield. As the top four players on the pitch in terms of passes made were central midfielders. Nothing more, nothing less. Throwing stats back at you, 41% of the game was in the middle of the park.

He hid from the ball from throw ins and set pieces. Watch the game back for proof.

By the way, from your own site provided there, Neville had the lowest "rating" of any outfield player on the pitch from either side, coming in at 6.14. But I assume that stat doesn't matter as it doesn't fit what you're trying to say - I assume the website has plucked that from thin air and are "blinkered" too?

Another stat - 348 short passes to Liverpools 273, simply because of the lack of adventure from the middle of the park. The pass type makes a world of difference - don't try to be disingenuous. A player who sprays around 30 yards passes all game is marked the same as a player who makes a 2 yard pass on the stats. Has Michael Carrick been the 3rd best midfielder in the EPL this season? No. But his passing stats indicate he has.

In layman's terms, he gave away the ball whenever he tried an actual pass of note. For Neville, that would be three times.

Comparing him to what Gibson dpes? No, no, no. World of difference. Don't care what the stats say - that ability to arrive on the periphery of the attack and back up the play, the extra yard of pace, the ability to switch a pass, to keep a move going forward... to say he did as well as Gibson yesterday displays a fundamental lack of footballing knowledge and suggests you're just going on stats rather than what your eyes are telling you.

And stats can lie. According to that website, Michael Williamson has been the 8th best passer of a ball this season. Yeah, sure. ^^ Sunderland have the best defence apparently - so that's why they're 14th in the league then? Magaye Gueye had one fewer dribble than Kevin Mirallas yesterday - so I suppose they were pretty close in terms of quality and impact on the pitch?

Neville dived and made the manager look like a t*t, he nearly gave a goal away by letting Shelvey jog past him in midfield, he did his trademark sandwedge-foot crosses to nothing, he shirked responsibility all game for anything other than a simple pass that Jan Mucha could have received and distributed in midfield.

He's a liability. People are praising him for actually running about a bit for 20 minutes in the first half. But being slightly better than pure dogsh*t is still dogsh*t, and people saying he played "really well" are absolutely bonkers.