Homepage Update: Paradise Lost

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Good stuff; You mention the rs and Spurs. Do they have a DoF? And if they do, what do they do different to Walsh...apart from not signing poor players.

Who picked Van Dijk...apart from more than a few on here.

We go round and round with the same old question of Why?

Why no striker, LB, etc.

Why all the number 10's

Moshiri want's to have a look at himself - the buck stops with him.

I bet he's sorry he ever listened to Kenwright...It all seemed so simple back then.

He's got a financial money pit tiger by the tail and he can't let go.

He trusted and invested in a manager he, and most, wanted in Koeman and a DOF Steve Walsh.

Koeman never complained he didn't have control of transfers or has come out attacking signings he didn't want.

Bottom line for me is that the board trusted the wrong man. When you put down a heavy investment with no return it takes a while to recover.

And this is going to take time.
 
@catcherintherye if we played ultra defensive football but finished in the top 7 next season with ease how would you feel?

Personally, I think we need to reassess at the end of the season...

The Walcott signing is a major red flag for me so far.
 
Agree with a lot of that, however there were 1 or 2 things that I didn't.

Firstly, I certainly wouldn't use Liverpool FC as the benchmark of 'how a football club should be run'. They've spent around £1bn and have never won the league in the PL era. I don't think they're close to getting their problems sorted either. For years they've needed to properly address their back 5 (GK included in that). They've finally gone a step in the right direction this January after being given an absurd amount of money for Coutinho by bringing in Van Dijk. Klopp's failure to address their back 5 was almost as ridiculous as our situation with the striker. They are also in a group of 4 teams battling it out for 2nd - 5th. They could quite easily finish 5th this season if they get an injury to a key player like Salah, with 5th still a possibility even without an injury due to how close it is.

I also think the recent fixtures are distorting how 'bad' Allardyce is now doing. He's still had the same players to work with that found themselves in the relegation zone when Koeman was sacked, who were getting beatings week in week out and who have a weak mentality at the first sign of trouble. Most significantly though is him having to persist with Martina at left back due to the failure of Koeman in making sure we had a left back in the squad if Baines was injured. Our last 6 games have consisted of 4 away games, with 2 admittedly against poor sides, but 2 were against teams in the top 6. Our away record has been a disgrace long before he got here with 1 win in 11 months before he arrived, and defeats against the likes of struggling Swansea (last season) or Southampton (this season - Unsworth) is/was the norm for this weak minded Everton side. 0-0 draws against poor sides away are not a new thing either - Boro and West Ham last season under Koeman when we should have been pushing for a top 6 place from Feb onwards. The 2 home games came against top 6 sides as well. He has shown that he can get results against the lesser sides with wins against Huddersfield, Newcastle and Swansea.
 
@catcherintherye if we played ultra defensive football but finished in the top 7 next season with ease how would you feel?

Personally, I think we need to reassess at the end of the season...

The Walcott signing is a major red flag for me so far.

I'll probably get some stick but I'd accept defensive football. I'd see it as laying a foundation that could be built upon. Similar to what Moyes left Martinez with. We'd have to hope a manager didn't throw it away in the 2/3rd season as he did.

What would worry me is if we see short termism in players we move on. Lads such as Davies, Lookman, Vlasic etc need to be ideally integrated or at worst loaned out.
 

Good read that, agree with most of it but one thing that wasn't touched upon was leadership on the pitch.
Successive mangers have failed to address this problem and have maintained the status quo by failing to recruit a club captain able to maintain discipline in the dressing room, provide leadership on the pitch and to act as a useful conduit between the players and management.
I'm not sure who that person would be but somebody with the outlook of a John Terry or a Peter Reid might be useful and until we address this problem as well as those of management we may resemble a work by Dante rather than Milton.
 
Good stuff; You mention the rs and Spurs. Do they have a DoF? And if they do, what do they do different to Walsh...apart from not signing poor players.

Who picked Van Dijk...apart from more than a few on here.

We go round and round with the same old question of Why?

Why no striker, LB, etc.

Why all the number 10's

Moshiri want's to have a look at himself - the buck stops with him.

I bet he's sorry he ever listened to Kenwright...It all seemed so simple back then.

He's got a financial money pit tiger by the tail and he can't let go.
We are making a profit so it's not like he is losing or going to lose any money on us. I think people don't appreciate just how much our revenue has grown due to the extra TV money.

My problem is we have significantly increased the age of the team and I'm not 100% convinced on any of the youngsters. Some could go on and be brilliant for us but if they don't we will need to replace an entire first 11. I know we don't have the ability to sign a 24 year old Theo Walcott or even a 24 year old Oxlade Chamberlain but if our scouting was better we could sign a 24 year old player from somewhere who was just as good.
 
Like your stuff and largely agree but what about the leaks he’s unwilling to fix? Are there specific leaks, or do you mean this generally?

I probably give Moshiri too but benefit of the doubt, but he seems (and seems, it is, since he’s been at the helm less time yet than Martinez walked the touch line) to be slow and methodical in his movement.

First, he went after what he knows best and cleared up the books. He also made plans on the stadium and began his chess play for Bramley Moore, which includes his acquisition of the Liver Building.

Regarding on the field, he seems the sort who doesn’t meddle with what he does t know, and keeps a long leash. Still he was swift in disposing of Martinez and Koeman both. There’s more story behind the failures, certainly, but I don’t know how much you can blame Moshiri here. And if stories are to be believed, that he wants/wanted Monchi and Simeone, he has ambitions for his appointments that they will need to achieve. A man can, at the same time, be very patient and very demanding.

Of all appointments I’d be most critical of Elstone, but Moshiri may be satisfied of this for now*. And Walsh, I think he’s been here too shot a time to be properly judged. And, if you remove the “Koeman” (or Allardyce buys, if you can even determine who these are) Walsh appears to only be buying kids, which is either a limitation of his role or his funding.

And maybe you’re right. Moshiri may be a fraud and Walsh out of his comfort, but in any case I think it’s awfully early to say. And if it is a sinking ship, righting the ship must come first before she embarks upon a new course. Maybe we’re roo hopeful and foolhardy a people if we expect success on the table any sooner.

*one thing that seems true: he doesn’t like change for the sake of change
 
Let’s hope Allardyce can get us top 10, we don’t deserve anymore considering the dross we have served up this season, from Koeman and now Allardyce. Then let’s get a proper manager in Tuchel, or if PSG sack him Emery and offer them an attractive package to stay here and build a side capable of challenging, whilst maintaining our footballing traditions, which has been abandoned this season.
 
Thinking back the rot started the very first transfer season of Koeman. When Ronald took over I expected much of what I had seen coming into the Saints. He had brought in Tadic, that now Liverpool bloke and van Dijk. I thought one would follow or he would bring in a creative player with speed etc like he had done. I actually thought Virgil would follow.

Nothing happened. I recall losing it on these forums back then. We ended the season in 7th and it seemed all was ok and we would make amends, but we blew it again! (I thought we had done brilliantly but began to get very worried when Siggy came in as the "plan" seemed less clear). That summer was it chance to take a massive step forward. From a squad quality standpoint it's been downhill ever since.

Whatever happened with Roberto I couldn't fault his recruitment overall. The ability to bring in Lukaku showed his ability to sell the club to players. Is it crazy that I've been wondering what Roberto could have done with the budget and one more season. I must be losing my mind.

One thing is I haven't been this apathetic about the transfer market in my life. I used to spend hours looking for prospects myself let alone google the heck out of every link. I don't even think I looked at the YouTube of Tosun until he showed the shirt.

To sum up, I'm going back to Koemans first summer.. I actually believe we are seeing the results now. Lukaku and Barkley didn't see any investment in the side. It all came too little too late.
 

He trusted and invested in a manager he, and most, wanted in Koeman and a DOF Steve Walsh.

Koeman never complained he didn't have control of transfers or has come out attacking signings he didn't want.

Bottom line for me is that the board trusted the wrong man. When you put down a heavy investment with no return it takes a while to recover.

And this is going to take time.
Well said.
 
Thinking back the rot started the very first transfer season of Koeman. When Ronald took over I expected much of what I had seen coming into the Saints. He had brought in Tadic, that now Liverpool bloke and van Dijk. I thought one would follow or he would bring in a creative player with speed etc like he had done. I actually thought Virgil would follow.

Nothing happened. I recall losing it on these forums back then. We ended the season in 7th and it seemed all was ok and we would make amends, but we blew it again! (I thought we had done brilliantly but began to get very worried when Siggy came in as the "plan" seemed less clear). That summer was it chance to take a massive step forward. From a squad quality standpoint it's been downhill ever since.

Whatever happened with Roberto I couldn't fault his recruitment overall. The ability to bring in Lukaku showed his ability to sell the club to players. Is it crazy that I've been wondering what Roberto could have done with the budget and one more season. I must be losing my mind.

One thing is I haven't been this apathetic about the transfer market in my life. I used to spend hours looking for prospects myself let alone google the heck out of every link. I don't even think I looked at the YouTube of Tosun until he showed the shirt.

To sum up, I'm going back to Koemans first summer.. I actually believe we are seeing the results now. Lukaku and Barkley didn't see any investment in the side. It all came too little too late.

Martinez was kept on for too long as it is.

The rot with him (and us) started with Palace at home in his first season, when we lost and he threw away everything we had done well up until that point and started thinking he was Guardiola. Before that we had been doing what Spurs have done since.
 
catcherintherye submitted an update to GrandOldTeam's homepage

Paradise Lost
samallardyce-look-1024x461.jpg



“Better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven"


So far under Allardyce I have got little correct. My initial desperation looked foolhardy as we went on an impressive unbeaten run and my optimism that came from the sequence of results now looks ill judged given we have no gone 6 without a win (losing our last 4). It would be easy to say that this is the most miserable I’ve been as an Evertonian, though it’s hard to qualify that given what has gone on over the last 3-4 years. I have no idea how to measure Martinez’s final 6 months, to the start of Koeman’s regime. What most Evertonians would agree on though, is that it has been a miserable 3-4 years and most now seem apathetic to the current fate of the team. I wouldn’t use the phrase miserable to describe my mood, but rather completely alienated from what is happening at the club and a detachment pervades my mood when I consider how things can get any better.



For Allardyce I think he is the victim of contradiction. The entirety of his appointment to the day after the Tottenham defeat runs the crude dialectic of contradiction purposefully. He is the manager who took over on a day when we were a defeat away from being in the relegation places but by the end of the night were 13th. There is a sizeable difference between those two places which would filter in to what you would assess as success for Allardyce this season. I suspect if performances don’t upturn the lower ebb of where we were when he took us over will begin to be stressed by Allardyce in press briefings. Likewise, he had a team without a worthwhile Premier League striker or left back, but also a side that had spent 150 million pounds in the summer and a squad that Allardyce feels Europa league finalists Davy Klaassen cannot get near on merit. The two statements in many ways are correct on their own merits but when put together don’t appear to make any sense.

The contradiction runs deeper for Allardyce. He is the football manager who has reveled in an ability to make poor sides average by a mixture of dogged solidity and gamesmanship. He is the manager who wanted a chance to show he could do more than this, bemoaning a lack of opportunities at more affluent clubs. He also knows, the brand of football he finds more secure in delivering in unlikely to secure him the job on a fulltime basis, yet as he ha shifted his side away from this approach he has found the performances have dropped dramatically in standard. It’s a difficult conundrum for Allardyce who desperately wants to show he can play a brand of football more akin to the top of the league, but risks jeapardising his short term prospects at the club if he goes too far along that basis. I sense his remarks about going back to defending post Tottenham were a reflection of this. He will likely look to go back to the basics that saw a positive run of form on his entry to the club.



The reality of having such a predicament for the manager is also the predicament for majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri. It could easily be argued the best thing for him to do currently, would be to tell Allardyce he has the job next season come what may, play whatever brand of football he wishes but get Everton as far away from the relegation zone as quickly as he can this season. It would likely be that certainty for Allardyce-that he gets a full pre-season with the squad that would likely cement the turn Allardyce would make towards “basic” football, with a far more dull but I suspect more effective brand which would be trotted out. If we tried to play with the defensive organization showed in the first half dozen games, focusing on clean sheets I sense a finish somewhere between 8-11th is most realistic. If he continues to be expansive my money would be on a lower finish still, as the squad is patently not able to be able to play a decent brand of football while remaining difficult to beat.

It is a very difficult call for Moshiri to make in that context. A finish outside the top 8 playing at times hideous football, or one lower than Everton have likely finished in over a decade playing better stuff is really not the type of return he’d have envisioned going into his 3rd year. He will want to consider a bigger name manager come the summer and I can’t imagine he wants to throw all his chips in behind Allardyce, for risk that his stock will continue to dwindle amongst the fan base.

The real difficulty I see for Everton is two fold. Firstly we seem to have no clear identity of what we are trying to do. Secondly it is very difficult to pinpoint exactly what needs to happen to turn the ship around. The whole club desperately needs a period of calm, where clearly thought through decisions and procedures can be brought into being without the kneejerk panic that seems to have engulfed the club over the recent weeks and months. What rubs salt into the wound is we can see across the Park our rivals and neighbours are increasingly building an impressive team, manager and club behind it. Where for years, in their own inertia from board down we were able to get close to them and be competitive (or in truth, they fell to our level) they give a useful indication of how football clubs ought to be run. They went and found the right manager who fitted their overall recruitment strategy, one who didn’t look to resolve all problems with recruitment, and then gave him time and resources to help make a team in his own image. A similar process has occurred at Tottenham, who are another club who have moved years ahead of Everton from a position if relative parity in the last 3-4 years.



Much of these problems of course have to be put at the door of the Director of Football (DOF). It is his job, above anything else to shape and mold the footballing direction of the team and players. Walsh appears to me to be too passive and too accommodating to fulfill that role. At no point watching or listening to him do I hear a man who is shaping his club (which top DOF such as Monchi do) but a decent man who is led by managers whims; in essence someone who is far closer to a head scout. While this remains an important skill for any DOF there is surely far more to the role than this if it is executed properly and more than anything else, he needs to be someone with a clear idea of how he can get his club to outperform it’s position in the league.

When you look at Steve Walsh’s track record he seems to succeed most in acquiring low cost players from unusual sources. Kante, Vardy, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Ndidi and Demurai Grey are a fine example of this. We have seen some glimpses of this at Everton with Sandro, Onyekuru, Gueye, Lookman and Vlasic all looking akin to more Steve Walsh signings. I think a stronger DOF, who’d have backed his ability to spot European and domestic talent would have been unlikely to sanction the Sigurdsson pursuit, not signed Klaassen and ensured a replacement for Lukaku was signed. When you consider how close we were to signing players such as Son from Spurs, Bailey (now in Germany) and Demurai Grey from Leicester all for significantly less than the above 2 names coveted by the manager at the time I strongly suspect we would have a more balanced and effective squad, filled with players who would likely be moved on for a healthy profit.

The same sort of mistakes appear to be being made in January. Both Tosun and Walcott appear to be signings very much driven from Sam Allardyce. This is not to write Tosun off, who I thought had a promising debut, but if he goes in the summer what if the new manager doesn’t fancy him, as Allardyce seemingly doesn’t fancy Klaassen? Everton run the risk of having significant values thrown away on players as they become surplus to new managers.

As the we head into the summer there will be increasing eyes on Farhad Moshiri who after an impressive start at Everton seems to increasingly underwhelm at as each month goes by. This is not to say the values he has put into the club haven’t been essential and greatly appreciated, but throwing money at a sinking ship while being unwilling to fix the leaks neither helps anyone nor represents astute business sense. There was some talk of a “root and branch review” occurring in the club, yet at the AGM it looked over much business as usual, with most of the old guard seemingly cemented in their places “running the day to day operation of the club” alongside a DOF who is yet to prove he is capable of the role and a manager who’s track record is far from suggesting he is either a proven winner or a coach capable of building a middle of the run side into one capable of challenging for honours.

Within that somewhat bleak and depressive outlook is where I pitch the on field performance. It is hard for me to locate exactly where to start in order to get things right on the pitch, but the continual hammerings come as little surprise. I cannot remember losing so many games by more than 2 goals in a given season (Spurs x 2, Atalanta x 2, Lyon, Southampton, Manchester United and Arsenal). The malaise goes beyond the players aren’t trying, or debates around Wayne Rooney or even any given manager. I would love to say we are just a few wins or a couple of signings away from being competitive with the top sides, but the truth is, until leadership is provided at the top end of the club and generalized down through all of the staff, we will continue to watch as sides go further away from us into the distance.
Rule in hell, personally
 
Agree entirely.

I've been saying for months:

What is the plan?

What style of football do we want to play?

If we don't have a plan of what we are working towards (on the training pitch every day) we shouldn't be making signings.

I'd have never gone near Allardyce in a million years. But they've given him £50m to waste so I fear getting rid isn't on the agenda.
 
Whatever happened with Roberto I couldn't fault his recruitment overall. The ability to bring in Lukaku showed his ability to sell the club to players. Is it crazy that I've been wondering what Roberto could have done with the budget and one more season. I must be losing my mind.

On his recruitment, his ability to sell an idea early was fabulous, but it fell apart terribly. His ability to pick out talent, however, leaves much to be desired.
 

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