Okay that's the breaking point

[davek]

I can understand people defending Allardyce by saying "stop complaining, he's been brought in to do a particular job and he's doing it". But I cant understand anyone weaving together some narrative that makes this appointment sound like a good idea beyond the season's end.

The defence of him seems to be that - apparently - he has been capable of good football in the past, or that he will seize his chance at this club to prove he can provide good football. Which is fanciful. Worse than that line of defence, though, others see the way he sets up as being perfectly reasonable - just a different but equally credible approach to the game to other methods deployed.

It's a forum, of course, and there'll always be differences of opinion, but I find it hard to understand how his defenders cant see the obvious here: this appointment is one step back in order to hopefully go a couple of steps forward eventually. That's the only basis it can be accepted upon. It's back to the very basics without any frills or artistry. It's football that has nothing going for it at all. It has no development arc to it. It's just dire, attritional stuff.

That's not what football is about.

 

[Gladystweet]

Very dangerous mindset that mate.

Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, Leeds.....

Was said of all of them they're too big to go down. Well where are they now?

Let's not forget a Barry Horne goal, a Gareth Farrelly goal, and a goal that never was...at Bolton....

 

[little elfin]

I heard Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Howard Kendall liked a well organised team that could defend, pfffft what did he know....

But Howard Kendall could also organise an attack!

Very dangerous mindset that mate.

Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, Leeds.....

Was said of all of them they're too big to go down. Well where are they now?

Times have changed mate. Look at the cash we've spent. We are in the top tier full stop.

Leeds were a Risdale car crash with a toxic team. Forest was a long slow post Clough decline. Villa was some.way between the two.

We messed up not replacing Lukaku to any degree. If we'd even had half a replacement then we'd already be in 7th and not witnessed any talk of relegation.

 

[Woolly Blue]

... this appointment is one step back in order to hopefully go a couple of steps forward eventually

I think the vast majority see the situation as just that dave, but the vast majority tend not to type a lot, mainly because they tend to get drowned out by people shouting, so they bugger off and do something else. If Allardyce doesn't show that he has something in him which will take the club beyond what Koeman did in his first season, then he won't be around very long. All the vast ( mostly silent ) majority are likely thinking is that :-

1. His appointment has stopped the rot
2. Come February or thereabouts, he might start to send the team out to play more expansively
3. If he doesn't, then a deal will likely be agreed for him to leave the club, with a sexier manager to follow

 

[Joey66]

I think the vast majority see the situation as just that dave, but the vast majority tend not to type a lot, mainly because they tend to get drowned out by people shouting, so they bugger off and do something else. If Allardyce doesn't show that he has something in him which will take the club beyond what Koeman did in his first season, then he won't be around very long. All the vast ( mostly silent ) majority are likely thinking is that :-

1. His appointment has stopped the rot
2. Come February or thereabouts, he might start to send the team out to play more expansively
3. If he doesn't, then a deal will likely be agreed for him to leave the club, with a sexier manager to follow

That's what may happen - ok stabilisation after January he has the chance to buy and get rid - balance his team if then the dirge continues he will be gone!

 

[Groucho]

Let's not forget a Barry Horne goal, a Gareth Farrelly goal, and a goal that never was...at Bolton....

Bolton fouled Nev to score theirs, that one’s even.

 

[Gladystweet]

Bolton fouled Nev to score theirs, that one’s even.

Yeah, yeah, but Hans let Stuart's shot in.....

 

[Groucho]

Yeah, yeah, but Hans let Stuart's shot in.....

Proven as not a thrown game.

 

[Gladystweet]

Proven as not a thrown game.

I agree. My point being, we were a gnats todger away from sinking in to the abyss.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I can understand people defending Allardyce by saying "stop complaining, he's been brought in to do a particular job and he's doing it". But I cant understand anyone weaving together some narrative that makes this appointment sound like a good idea beyond the season's end.

The defence of him seems to be that - apparently - he has been capable of good football in the past, or that he will seize his chance at this club to prove he can provide good football. Which is fanciful. Worse than that line of defence, though, others see the way he sets up as being perfectly reasonable - just a different but equally credible approach to the game to other methods deployed.

It's a forum, of course, and there'll always be differences of opinion, but I find it hard to understand how his defenders cant see the obvious here: this appointment is one step back in order to hopefully go a couple of steps forward eventually. That's the only basis it can be accepted upon. It's back to the very basics without any frills or artistry. It's football that has nothing going for it at all. It has no development arc to it. It's just dire, attritional stuff.

That's not what football is about.

I think you're pointing to the bigger issue. Forget Sam in some respects, he's one man appointed by the club to do a job. The worry is the club's vision. If indeed Sam is the quick fix stop gap who will they appoint next? Unfortunately most clubs post Sam have made poor choices who haven't taken them forward. So the worry is "is that where we are as a club?".

Like Koeman or not his sacking was panic driven as were the subsequent appointment strategies.

Sam's doing what he does. I don't blame him for this.

 

[davek]

I think the vast majority see the situation as just that dave, but the vast majority tend not to type a lot, mainly because they tend to get drowned out by people shouting, so they bugger off and do something else. If Allardyce doesn't show that he has something in him which will take the club beyond what Koeman did in his first season, then he won't be around very long. All the vast ( mostly silent ) majority are likely thinking is that :-

1. His appointment has stopped the rot
2. Come February or thereabouts, he might start to send the team out to play more expansively
3. If he doesn't, then a deal will likely be agreed for him to leave the club, with a sexier manager to follow

I accept that most see things in those realistic terms. My post was addressed to those who see the merit in what Allardyce has done thus far: that it's a worthy way to go about matters. I reckon there's a lot more people who do see things that way than you believe there to be.

There's been a difference at this club since probably even before Moyes arrived regarding the way we should aspire to play: a debate within the fanbase that has tipped toward those who view functionality as the be all and end all of how we have to play. That's how to locate this current disagreement over Allardyce. He is the very end of that functionality spectrum and we must resist that. The balance must be struck between artistry and labour. It's what all great Everton teams were built upon.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I accept that most see things in those realistic terms. My post was addressed to those who see the merit in what Allardyce has done thus far: that it's a worthy way to go about matters. I reckon there's a lot more people who do see things that way than you believe there to be.

There's been a difference at this club since probably even before Moyes arrived regarding the way we should aspire to play: a debate within the fanbase that has tipped toward those who view functionality as the be all and end all of how we have to play. That's how to locate this current disagreement over Allardyce. He is the very end of that functionality spectrum and we must resist that. The balance must be struck between artistry and labour. It's what all great Everton teams were built upon.

What you having for lunch mate ?
Nice words btw, and I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, but you're oversimplifying stuff

 

[davek]

I think you're pointing to the bigger issue. Forget Sam in some respects, he's one man appointed by the club to do a job. The worry is the club's vision. If indeed Sam is the quick fix stop gap who will they appoint next? Unfortunately most clubs post Sam have made poor choices who haven't taken them forward. So the worry is "is that where we are as a club?".

Like Koeman or not his sacking was panic driven as were the subsequent appointment strategies.

Sam's doing what he does. I don't blame him for this.

No, I dont blame him at all. He's doing his stuff. He's here to do EXACTLY this.

I cant even get angry with the board about his appointment either. But I will if this manager is in place beyond the summer.

 

[davek]

What you having for lunch mate ?

"Lunch"?

There's breakfast, dinner and tea. I dont recognise "lunch".