2017/18 Nikola Vlasic

[BrendanGOT]

...I don’t see him as a wide player at all, but I suppose it’s all about opinion. I think he can pick a pass and score goals in a similar role to the one Barkley played.

He's naturally a 10

 

[Kenshin]

What has Vlasic actually done to say every other club would be playing him every week?

He is alright.

Here's the thing. When you look at the top clubs, you don't see their star wingers expected to track back all the time the same way Everton freeze out young players. You don't see Ronaldo at real Madrid or Sanchez at arsenal or saleh or anyone like that expected to track back and defend for large portions of the game. They are left to be attackers and to win games.

That's always been one of our downfalls. Vlasic isn't as good as a star winger but he could be. If we knock this notion on the head that all our players have to defend as well as attack then the likes of vlasic suddenly are much more viable on the pitch. It's essentially that mindset which is why we attack from the back and never counter teams aside from a hoof down the pitch

So going from that, if our attackers were attackers and not more defenders then vlasic has done plenty this season to prove he should be in the starting 11, as has lookman. They are inventive, offer something offensively and have enough talent to make something happen. Statistically allardyce has the fewest (or second) chances created, and we freeze out our creative players on the whole. Walcott has probably created more chances since he joined than the entire team have in months which is amazingly bad.

So yes vlasic has done more than enough to earn a chance in the team or actively off the bench but whilst we keep this defensive mindset that seems to now be in the DNA of the club then we will never go anywhere achievement wise .

As I say, watch the psg real Madrid game and see how long mbappe, Ronaldo and the other wingers spend actually being defenders compared to how long they spend being attackers. We have potentially another 8 players on the pitch to be defenders at any given point, so why do we insist on making the whole 11 defenders?

Bolasie is better than him.

Nice try for a wind up.

 

[Kenshin]

I'm still stunned that he wasn't sent on loan. I can accept the fact that you think he isn't ready Sam, but he should be getting regular football somewhere.

But again why isn't he ready?

What makes you think that he isnt?

 

[Lanolin]

Here's the thing. When you look at the top clubs, you don't see their star wingers expected to track back all the time the same way Everton freeze out young players. You don't see Ronaldo at real Madrid or Sanchez at arsenal or saleh or anyone like that expected to track back and defend for large portions of the game. They are left to be attackers and to win games.

That's always been one of our downfalls. Vlasic isn't as good as a star winger but he could be. If we knock this notion on the head that all our players have to defend as well as attack then the likes of vlasic suddenly are much more viable on the pitch. It's essentially that mindset which is why we attack from the back and never counter teams aside from a hoof down the pitch

So going from that, if our attackers were attackers and not more defenders then vlasic has done plenty this season to prove he should be in the starting 11, as has lookman. They are inventive, offer something offensively and have enough talent to make something happen. Statistically allardyce has the fewest (or second) chances created, and we freeze out our creative players on the whole. Walcott has probably created more chances since he joined than the entire team have in months which is amazingly bad.

So yes vlasic has done more than enough to earn a chance in the team or actively off the bench but whilst we keep this defensive mindset that seems to now be in the DNA of the club then we will never go anywhere achievement wise .

As I say, watch the psg real Madrid game and see how long mbappe, Ronaldo and the other wingers spend actually being defenders compared to how long they spend being attackers. We have potentially another 8 players on the pitch to be defenders at any given point, so why do we insist on making the whole 11 defenders?



Nice try for a wind up.

Barkley and Deulofeu were effectively given no defensive responsibilities whatsoever under Martinez, and became worse players (in my opinion) as a result.

The players you've mentioned all get 20+ goals a season, so they can get away with not putting a shift in, just like Lukaku did for us. If you only get 5 goals and 5 assists a season you're going to be asked to work hard defensively because the team can't afford to carry someone like that.

As has been said elsewhere, I honestly don't think Vlasic, Lookman etc have anywhere near the level of talent that would allow them to be given that sort of free role. We have some young players who have real potential but none of them have really announced themselves in the way that other young players both here and elsewhere have in the past.

 

[Eggs]

He's naturally a 10

..I think so. The other thing about him playing wide is his defending is a liability, he really does get lost following the ball.

 

[Kenshin]

Barkley and Deulofeu were effectively given no defensive responsibilities whatsoever under Martinez, and became worse players (in my opinion) as a result.

The players you've mentioned all get 20+ goals a season, so they can get away with not putting a shift in, just like Lukaku did for us. If you only get 5 goals and 5 assists a season you're going to be asked to work hard defensively because the team can't afford to carry someone like that.

As has been said elsewhere, I honestly don't think Vlasic, Lookman etc have anywhere near the level of talent that would allow them to be given that sort of free role. We have some young players who have real potential but none of them have really announced themselves in the way that other young players both here and elsewhere have in the past.

They haven't now no. But they are only 19! Ronaldo wasn't Ronaldo at 19, he was a half decent step over pony of a winger who got game time and allowed to improve. The Everton way seems to be to drop ours out the team and then wonder why they never improved.

In terms of del and Ross, they didn't suffer from lack of defensive coaching (which considering it was Martinez.. ..) it was a lack of coaching altogether. They were sent out by him to play without any development behind the scenes and therefore never improved beyond the young talent phase . I'm not saying wingers should never defend, I'm saying they shouldn't be dropped simply for not tracking back enough when they want to be running towards the goal.

And yes the players I mentioned get 20 plus goals a season. How many did they get at 19? I don't get this mind set at this club! Other teams sign exciting young players and actually play them, nurture them sure but they play them at least and give them time to get experience and improve. For as long as I can remember it seems the Everton mind set is that they aren't good enough and soon after Shipped out. People cawing over the Watford lad who is 21 yet happy to see 19 year old lookman and vlasic out the team and therefore not developing.

 

[Nymzee]

Vlasic always struck me as a lazy signing in this sense. " We see at first hand European opponents in the Europa, let us sign one of the better players for not too much money and see how it goes". It appears not to have gone very well, although I would pick him ahead of some in the present midfield.

He won't have been unknown till the EL tie mate. He's been touted around Europe for years now with a few other young Croats.

 

[Nymzee]

Personally think he's going to be very good. Maybe not here but somewhere.

 

[kenada_blue]

...I don’t see him as a wide player at all, but I suppose it’s all about opinion. I think he can pick a pass and score goals in a similar role to the one Barkley played.

Not for me. Don't think he has the passing range or vision. He's pacy and direct. Played out wide in a front 3 for Split.

Could change like but usually at his age with his abilities, he'd be playing a CM role about now if he was good at it IMO

 

[kenada_blue]

Barkley and Deulofeu were effectively given no defensive responsibilities whatsoever under Martinez, and became worse players (in my opinion) as a result.

The players you've mentioned all get 20+ goals a season, so they can get away with not putting a shift in, just like Lukaku did for us. If you only get 5 goals and 5 assists a season you're going to be asked to work hard defensively because the team can't afford to carry someone like that.

As has been said elsewhere, I honestly don't think Vlasic, Lookman etc have anywhere near the level of talent that would allow them to be given that sort of free role. We have some young players who have real potential but none of them have really announced themselves in the way that other young players both here and elsewhere have in the past.

And we're utter dogger as a team to even attempt to embellish such type of player at the moment.

 

[Barnfred 55]

But again why isn't he ready?

What makes you think that he isnt?

He's ready enough for the last Croation squad which I daresay is better than Englands.

 

[Barnfred 55]

..I think so. The other thing about him playing wide is his defending is a liability, he really does get lost following the ball.

Which happens rarely with players aged 19/20.

 

[Lanolin]

They haven't now no. But they are only 19! Ronaldo wasn't Ronaldo at 19, he was a half decent step over pony of a winger who got game time and allowed to improve. The Everton way seems to be to drop ours out the team and then wonder why they never improved.

In terms of del and Ross, they didn't suffer from lack of defensive coaching (which considering it was Martinez.. ..) it was a lack of coaching altogether. They were sent out by him to play without any development behind the scenes and therefore never improved beyond the young talent phase . I'm not saying wingers should never defend, I'm saying they shouldn't be dropped simply for not tracking back enough when they want to be running towards the goal.

And yes the players I mentioned get 20 plus goals a season. How many did they get at 19? I don't get this mind set at this club! Other teams sign exciting young players and actually play them, nurture them sure but they play them at least and give them time to get experience and improve. For as long as I can remember it seems the Everton mind set is that they aren't good enough and soon after Shipped out. People cawing over the Watford lad who is 21 yet happy to see 19 year old lookman and vlasic out the team and therefore not developing.

I think you’re making 2 different arguments there.

Vlasic and lookman are players with ability who I hope we keep and who I think will be good players. I don’t want them shipped out and I don’t think we need to turn them into great defensive players.

I still think that they need to become more rounded though. They’re 20 and have played a decent amount of first team football, it’s just not acceptable to be a complete passenger defensively in the way they have been at times (particularly Vlasic who sometimes looks like the thought of tracking a runner makes him physically ill).

Hopefully a better manager can coach them to be reasonably effective for the team without losing their attacking quality.

 

[Eggs]

Which happens rarely with players aged 19/20.

..fair point but it’s a reflection he hasn’t come through the ranks playing in wide positions. Beckham and Giggs set the standards at that age.

 

[Papa Shango]

Here's the thing. When you look at the top clubs, you don't see their star wingers expected to track back all the time the same way Everton freeze out young players. You don't see Ronaldo at real Madrid or Sanchez at arsenal or saleh or anyone like that expected to track back and defend for large portions of the game. They are left to be attackers and to win games.

That's always been one of our downfalls. Vlasic isn't as good as a star winger but he could be. If we knock this notion on the head that all our players have to defend as well as attack then the likes of vlasic suddenly are much more viable on the pitch. It's essentially that mindset which is why we attack from the back and never counter teams aside from a hoof down the pitch

So going from that, if our attackers were attackers and not more defenders then vlasic has done plenty this season to prove he should be in the starting 11, as has lookman. They are inventive, offer something offensively and have enough talent to make something happen. Statistically allardyce has the fewest (or second) chances created, and we freeze out our creative players on the whole. Walcott has probably created more chances since he joined than the entire team have in months which is amazingly bad.

So yes vlasic has done more than enough to earn a chance in the team or actively off the bench but whilst we keep this defensive mindset that seems to now be in the DNA of the club then we will never go anywhere achievement wise .

As I say, watch the psg real Madrid game and see how long mbappe, Ronaldo and the other wingers spend actually being defenders compared to how long they spend being attackers. We have potentially another 8 players on the pitch to be defenders at any given point, so why do we insist on making the whole 11 defenders?

I agree but I didn't mention anything about his lack of tracking back.

I just think he (and Lookman) have been pretty average when their chances have come. They are young so that's fine but I don't see them knocking the door down to get game time either. It's top flight football, they need to shine as much as they can when they get the chance.