Nikica Jelavic

[Tubey]

I dont know mate, it sounds a bit unreal the way last season is being portrayed as Jelavic doing it all up front and everything being fundamentally different.

You predicted it yourself mate.

He's off the leash at the moment. He's a great finisher by the looks of it, but we know he'll be left isolated like all our forwards have been in the past when the matches realy count and Moyes is looking to get a result of some sort with all hands to the pumps in midfield. The Yakubu first season form should be a warning: free scoring then eventually he got worn down by the workload he was given.

Moyes needs to partner him consistently with an out and out stiker or he'll wither away on the vine...like the rest did.

That's pretty much spot on in my eyes, in terms of why his goalscoring particularly has faded anyway. He needs a mobile partner up front.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I dont know mate, it sounds a bit unreal the way last season is being portrayed as Jelavic doing it all up front and everything being fundamentally different. He formed what was considered to be a very good understanding with Cahill last season and he thrived. Fellaini is a marvelous player with great touch and there's no reason a partnership couldn't be forged there too. Even if the focus of the team has changed then it doesn't explain poorly timed runs trying to knock him into space behind defences (something he timed well last season) and nor does it explain being front and centre of the goal and hitting the Park End/Gwladys Street stands.

Cahill built a career on his great movement. He could ghost into the box unmarked despite people knowing he was the danger man, and take advantage of chances. Fellaini has a lot more physical ability than Cahill in that he’s massive and can hold people off with apparent ease. As far as I am aware Fellaini has never really played such an advanced position before either, so he’s never developed that attacking movement aspect to his play, like Cahill had to.

If an Everton player has the ball when Fellaini is playing in an advanced position then they know they can aim for Fellaini and he’ll likely chest it down and the play can build up from further up the pitch. When Cahill was playing, the same ball may result in Cahill chesting it down, but would more likely result in Cahill challenging for a header. Hence Everton would have to provide different options for the man on the ball. This is where I think the style of play has changed. Players become lazy, maybe even the manager did. Everyone saw how Fellaini dominated Utd at Goodison and it looked so easy. Not many teams score when the ball is in their own half, so playing it up to Fellaini takes the pressure off our defence as well. Playing out from the back can potentially lead to mistakes, a mis-placed pass, mis-control etc. This is where I think it’s come from the manager to change the style slightly. We’ve all heard him say ‘Hit the front man’ in the past, wanting the defence to knock it long, I think he may have even said himself that Fellaini’s ability allows us to switch from defence to playing around the opposition area. Personally I think the best sides and Everton (end of last season) play best when moving the ball quickly. It stops opposition players getting into defensive positions and closing down space, because the game is constantly moving. Jelavic appeared to thrive when Everton moved the ball quickly and created chances, and Everton’s football looked the best it ever did under Moyes to be fair. Then we began to rely heavily on Fellaini, especially when Jelavic was out and suddenly Jelavic’s role within the team has changed. And I believe his confidence/mental state has suffered as a result. Hence why he doesn’t even make contact with the ball at times, and why he’s trying too hard to make the run, often meaning it is poorly timed, because he’s trying to rush things to get in the space early before Everton and Fellaini set up camp there.

I’d love to see Fellaini play deeper alongside Gibson on Saturday and have an Osman or Pienaar behind Jelavic and see if Jelavic enjoys any more space/attacking responsibility. I also think that is Fellaini’s best position as well.

 

[Little Ralphy]

We play different with Fellaini than we did with Cahill in our attack approach play.

With Cahill, it was worked into wide areas for delivery on an angle; Jelavic benefited because we'd then mix that up by working it inside from wide areas, whilst the opposition had to commit men to stopping that supply route. Look at a video of his goals and you'll notice that nearly all of them come from wide play first.

With Fellaini, we're hitting the big man early through the middle. Jelavic's supply is now knockdowns at best if central, or he's hitting the channels because Felli is attaching himself to the centre half, so we need the option for the out ball out wide. Jelavic is no long constantly looking for the yard of space off the defender in the box, so the quality of his chances have dropped to trying to get snap shots away under pressure.

Against Oldham, we were back to doing things the way we did when Cahill played - most notably because of the partnership of Mirallas and Coleman down the right which was VERY effective in the first half particularly. If we play that way again next time out, the odds on Jelavic scoring increase dramatically IMO.

Spot on.

 

[MartSlinger]

He was absolutely boss against Chelsea without slotting. I reckon if he slotted against Chelsea we'd see a different Jelavic.
His freekick was superb, unlucky to hit the post. The header was superb, unlucky to hit the bar.
But like i say, i reckon if he slotted that game he'd be slotting now. Confidence is KEY with strikers.

 

[davek]

You predicted it yourself mate.



That's pretty much spot on in my eyes, in terms of why his goalscoring particularly has faded anyway. He needs a mobile partner up front.

But in the event he wasn't isolated. That didn't happen this time around...as we're all agreed, (for better or worse) Fellaini is effectively Jelavic's strike partner.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Can I blame Moyes? For training it out of him? It's quicker than writing loads tbh.

 

[davek]

Cahill built a career on his great movement. He could ghost into the box unmarked despite people knowing he was the danger man, and take advantage of chances. Fellaini has a lot more physical ability than Cahill in that he’s massive and can hold people off with apparent ease. As far as I am aware Fellaini has never really played such an advanced position before either, so he’s never developed that attacking movement aspect to his play, like Cahill had to.

If an Everton player has the ball when Fellaini is playing in an advanced position then they know they can aim for Fellaini and he’ll likely chest it down and the play can build up from further up the pitch. When Cahill was playing, the same ball may result in Cahill chesting it down, but would more likely result in Cahill challenging for a header. Hence Everton would have to provide different options for the man on the ball. This is where I think the style of play has changed. Players become lazy, maybe even the manager did. Everyone saw how Fellaini dominated Utd at Goodison and it looked so easy. Not many teams score when the ball is in their own half, so playing it up to Fellaini takes the pressure off our defence as well. Playing out from the back can potentially lead to mistakes, a mis-placed pass, mis-control etc. This is where I think it’s come from the manager to change the style slightly. We’ve all heard him say ‘Hit the front man’ in the past, wanting the defence to knock it long, I think he may have even said himself that Fellaini’s ability allows us to switch from defence to playing around the opposition area. Personally I think the best sides and Everton (end of last season) play best when moving the ball quickly. It stops opposition players getting into defensive positions and closing down space, because the game is constantly moving. Jelavic appeared to thrive when Everton moved the ball quickly and created chances, and Everton’s football looked the best it ever did under Moyes to be fair. Then we began to rely heavily on Fellaini, especially when Jelavic was out and suddenly Jelavic’s role within the team has changed. And I believe his confidence/mental state has suffered as a result. Hence why he doesn’t even make contact with the ball at times, and why he’s trying too hard to make the run, often meaning it is poorly timed, because he’s trying to rush things to get in the space early before Everton and Fellaini set up camp there.

I’d love to see Fellaini play deeper alongside Gibson on Saturday and have an Osman or Pienaar behind Jelavic and see if Jelavic enjoys any more space/attacking responsibility. I also think that is Fellaini’s best position as well.

I think there is a difference between what Cahill can offer Jelavic and what Fellaini can (I've mentioned it before myself in fact). However, there's maybe a bit of selectivity and cherry picking of facts to bolster arguments going on here (probably on both 'sides' to be fair). We were playing a lot of slick football until shortly before Christmas and Jelavic was already struggling by then, so it's not as if any adoption of an agricultural game has done for his form. Also, we cant simply say that Fellaini was playing deep last season allowing Jelavic to prosper up front on his own / with cahill. That's a caricature of the way we played. Felli was constantly deployed in an advanced position last season and it didn't negatively impact on Jelavic's form. In fact, they demonstrated that raking diagonal balls that get played into Fellaini can arrive at the feet of Jelavic. We also have the evidence of Tuesday night before us when Fellaini wasn't anywhere on the pitch and Jelavic (despite what Tubey says) did not fundamentally see any improvement in his game.

I honestly think were barking up the wrong tree here to explain Jelavic's loss of goalscoring and general form by singling Fellaini's presence alongside him.

 

[Little Ralphy]

We were playing a lot of slick football until shortly before Christmas and Jelavic was already struggling by then

I am guessing shortly before Christmas means something different to you and I.

 

[kenada_blue]

He was absolutely boss against Chelsea without slotting. I reckon if he slotted against Chelsea we'd see a different Jelavic.
His freekick was superb, unlucky to hit the post. The header was superb, unlucky to hit the bar.
But like i say, i reckon if he slotted that game he'd be slotting now. Confidence is KEY with strikers.

He was.

Moyes has to get it out of him again.

 

[D410]

starting wonder if his form is being affected by matters of the field. steve g went through the fire a few years back with the dark elements of society getting into his personal life.

 

[billycopper]

I think there is a difference between what Cahill can offer Jelavic and what Fellaini can (I've mentioned it before myself in fact). However, there's maybe a bit of selectivity and cherry picking of facts to bolster arguments going on here (probably on both 'sides' to be fair). We were playing a lot of slick football until shortly before Christmas and Jelavic was already struggling by then, so it's not as if any adoption of an agricultural game has done for his form. Also, we cant simply say that Fellaini was playing deep last season allowing Jelavic to prosper up front on his own / with cahill. That's a caricature of the way we played. Felli was constantly deployed in an advanced position last season and it didn't negatively impact on Jelavic's form. In fact, they demonstrated that raking diagonal balls that get played into Fellaini can arrive at the feet of Jelavic. We also have the evidence of Tuesday night before us when Fellaini wasn't anywhere on the pitch and Jelavic (despite what Tubey says) did not fundamentally see any improvement in his game.

I honestly think were barking up the wrong tree here to explain Jelavic's loss of goalscoring and general form by singling Fellaini's presence alongside him.

That sounds unusually well-reasoned for you. If you look at the goals he scored last season he was able to find space in the box and to slot home with one touch. There could be a few reasons why it's not happening for him this season:

Pienaar and Baines were flying last year and we had Coleman driving forward from the right of midfield. We also had Rodwell capable of covering ground with the ball. Maybe we're a bit more pedestrian getting forward (tiredness could be a factor) and the opposition are getting more time to organise themselves.

For some reason he's playing in the channels more. Maybe Moyes has asked him to do more running? Or it could be that Fellaini is playing in his space, whereas Cahill often dropped back to help his fellow midfielders more.

He definitely seems like a confidence player. When things are going well for him everything goes into the net but when he's off form he looks badly Stuart Barlow.

As a team we're not playing with a lot of confidence. Last season we were putting chances on a plate for Jelavic but I can't think of any chances against Oldham that we created for him and he fluffed.

During Nikica's 11 game drought the only league goals that Fellaini has scored were the two against Villa. Vic has faired slightly better with strikes against West Ham, Newcastle and Aston Villa. If it was just down to Jelavic being profligate then we would expect the players around him on the pitch to still be scoring frequently.

Jelavic was, the last time I checked, the player most caught offside in the Premier League. I think that he's playing on the shoulder of the defender and trying to make runs but Gibson and Osman are not spotting the pass until he's already strayed offside, whereas Fellaini has more vision from a deeper position with slide rule passes.

Last year Felli was drawing defenders to him and making space for Jela. This year markers seem to have realised that they can foul the Belgian without getting punished and they've been able to restrict his effectiveness.

 

[HSD]

Reasons to love Jelavic:
He & Baines are adorable.

 

[sheedsrightfoot]

the lack of goals is a bit of a worry to be honest, although he still looks to be putting in the effort and getting involved. I would be a lot more worried if he was not putting the effort in and playing to help the team out, I mean in recent games he has cleared a couple of chances off the line to prevent conceding a goal, wrong end of the pitch for him I admit but at least he is still trying.

He just needs a lucky goal going in off his backside or a miss-hit cross or something to get back amongst the goals.

 

[davek]

That sounds unusually well-reasoned for you. If you look at the goals he scored last season he was able to find space in the box and to slot home with one touch. There could be a few reasons why it's not happening for him this season:

Pienaar and Baines were flying last year and we had Coleman driving forward from the right of midfield. We also had Rodwell capable of covering ground with the ball. Maybe we're a bit more pedestrian getting forward (tiredness could be a factor) and the opposition are getting more time to organise themselves.

For some reason he's playing in the channels more. Maybe Moyes has asked him to do more running? Or it could be that Fellaini is playing in his space, whereas Cahill often dropped back to help his fellow midfielders more.

He definitely seems like a confidence player. When things are going well for him everything goes into the net but when he's off form he looks badly Stuart Barlow.

As a team we're not playing with a lot of confidence. Last season we were putting chances on a plate for Jelavic but I can't think of any chances against Oldham that we created for him and he fluffed.

During Nikica's 11 game drought the only league goals that Fellaini has scored were the two against Villa. Vic has faired slightly better with strikes against West Ham, Newcastle and Aston Villa. If it was just down to Jelavic being profligate then we would expect the players around him on the pitch to still be scoring frequently.

Jelavic was, the last time I checked, the player most caught offside in the Premier League. I think that he's playing on the shoulder of the defender and trying to make runs but Gibson and Osman are not spotting the pass until he's already strayed offside, whereas Fellaini has more vision from a deeper position with slide rule passes.

Last year Felli was drawing defenders to him and making space for Jela. This year markers seem to have realised that they can foul the Belgian without getting punished and they've been able to restrict his effectiveness.

Maybe, I dont know if you're right or wrong on that. I stopped reading after the first sentence.

 

[davek]

Jelavic might start scoring again if we all stop using the words 'slot' and 'slotter' - especially when preceded by the word 'boss'..

It's worth a try.