New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Toffeeslam]

With 32,000 ST holders now and an estimated 30,000 or more on the potential waiting list… if all those were covered, you still need circa 3,000 for away fans and circa 3,000 for non ST purchasers.

I for one think the 61,878 as originally suggested by @tommye would have been an ideal capacity… and Meis was fully aware of the positive feeling towards that number.

I think economics and practicality took over there as well as having to lower the stadium roof to head off planning objections from heritage England or someone that would have impacted capacity.

He also said constructing the last 1000 seats was like 6 times more than the first 1000 but would cost considerably less to sell or something to that effect.

It’s still a huge uplift on Goodison in both capacity and amenities

 

[Davideeyore]

Shouts of 65k to make a statement? Can someone tell me what that statement is supposed to say ?

All a bit juvenile to me

Really? Juvenile?

Behave yourself.

BTW the "statement" back then I suppose would be of a rich owner who would do anything to turn the club around in to a team that would compete and challenge for trophies. Bigger grounds don't guarantee success (I've never said it does) but I wanted us to do something that showed the world Everton
are a big club. Moving in to a big stadium. Shows what a big club we are. Second only to Man U. 65,000 isn't that much check the continent check the USA where Meis comes from.

Didn't happen that way we got mule for an owner. The 53,000 is going to be considerably on the low side compared to a number of clubs.

It's barmy when you consider the waiting lists when you consider how we've been large parts of the last decade and still not trophy. The club simply
did not have the backbone, or the faith, or confidence that we would fill the stadium. The club has constantly undersold itself and us.

 

[maccavennie]

Really? Juvenile?

Behave yourself.

BTW the "statement" back then I suppose would be of a rich owner who would do anything to turn the club around in to a team that would compete and challenge for trophies. Bigger grounds don't guarantee success (I've never said it does) but I wanted us to do something that showed the world Everton
are a big club. Moving in to a big stadium. Shows what a big club we are. Second only to Man U. 65,000 isn't that much check the continent check the USA where Meis comes from.

Didn't happen that way we got mule for an owner. The 53,000 is going to be considerably on the low side compared to a number of clubs.

It's barmy when you consider the waiting lists when you consider how we've been large parts of the last decade and still not trophy. The club simply
did not have the backbone, or the faith, or confidence that we would fill the stadium. The club has constantly undersold itself and us.

As things stand, it ain't a bad thing that we didn't go for the 65k stadium as we're currently struggling to get the remaining funds for the 53k version!

 

[Tom Hughes]

I don't have that much faith in the waiting list numbers tbh. I know several people who only joined in the last few years who are only at the low thousands on the list. I suppose a good way to sell more corporate-lite packages is to mention long waiting lists, and allow the well-heeled to jump the Queue. The longer the list, the better.

That said, football is more popular than ever, so you never know. I've read of several clubs now having large waiting lists. The other thing to remember is many people joined those lists when season tickets were considerably cheaper than now, nevermind when BMD opens. So actual take-up could much less.... in which case 53k may be just right.

 

[JimmyK]

I would imagine that the 8 people would be on tier 2 of the list. If they dont want to spend doh on going to games then its highly unlikely they are paid up members and therefore extremely unlikely they would ever be offered a ST.

Loads of members and people on waiting lists won't go they like the idea of it but giving up every weekend and spending a grand is a big commitment when it comes to the crunch loads of people just won't do it.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Really? Juvenile?

Behave yourself.

BTW the "statement" back then I suppose would be of a rich owner who would do anything to turn the club around in to a team that would compete and challenge for trophies. Bigger grounds don't guarantee success (I've never said it does) but I wanted us to do something that showed the world Everton
are a big club. Moving in to a big stadium. Shows what a big club we are. Second only to Man U. 65,000 isn't that much check the continent check the USA where Meis comes from.

Didn't happen that way we got mule for an owner. The 53,000 is going to be considerably on the low side compared to a number of clubs.

It's barmy when you consider the waiting lists when you consider how we've been large parts of the last decade and still not trophy. The club simply
did not have the backbone, or the faith, or confidence that we would fill the stadium. The club has constantly undersold itself and us.

65k could've cost 50%+ more. By the time the current 53k version is completed, the debt will have seen off at least one whole board and a billionaire owner. 61k was probably only ever possible if the CWG bid had been successful and the government would've met half the cost. Other than that, only a redevelopment option could've yielded an affordable 60k+ stadium.

 

[tommye]

I for one think the 61,878 as originally suggested by @tommye would have been an ideal capacity… and Meis was fully aware of the positive feeling towards that number.

It's the perfect number for our capacity. The one thing that disappoints me about the new gaff. The rest is stunning.

 

[McKindrick Blue]

… and Meis was fully aware of the positive feeling towards that number.

But again Andy, why do you think Meis is the one that decides the capacity?

Didn't he initially design a larger one than the eventual compromised one we have? Are you suggesting that Meis decided it should be smaller and then convinced the club?

Aspirations aside (I'd love us to be closer to the 60k), there are a number of factors that resulted in the eventual capacity (site limitations/budget etc). You may agree with them, you may not, but the final decision will have rested with the club not Meis. He will have been given a brief and in my view has more than delivered on it. You seem to be suggesting that the 52k+ we have was because Meis didn't listen to the fans. I respectfully disagree.

And ultimately we are struggling to find the funds for the "small" version. Had we gone for over 60k work may already have ground to a halt .

 

[Onwards Evertonians]

Regarding capacity - Had a snide comment in passing from a RS in work (no, of course he doesn't go to the game). "Anfield is still gonna dwarf yours, always in our shadow". I replied that if it meant extra whopper tourists and day trippers, I'm not even arsed. They're welcome to them. I'd sooner a kid from Kirkdale attends than some dumb sheep with a lyrics sheet and half-and-half scarf.

And our record attendance dwarfs there's on numerous occasions. And while they're at it, Old Trafford has dwarfed there's for years.

 

[Blue Parkender]

Had an email offering 'seasonal membership' where they offer some sort of food and drink, and a seat near the half way line. Any idea what they're asking for these, and do you pay up front for them??

I have paid just over £3,000 including VAT. For a seat in the Trinity Bar section in the East Stand.

 

[Blue Parkender]

Forgot to say that includes free ale from 12 to 3 and halftime and a meal.

 

[AndyC]

But again Andy, why do you think Meis is the one that decides the capacity?

Didn't he initially design a larger one than the eventual compromised one we have? Are you suggesting that Meis decided it should be smaller and then convinced the club?

Aspirations aside (I'd love us to be closer to the 60k), there are a number of factors that resulted in the eventual capacity (site limitations/budget etc). You may agree with them, you may not, but the final decision will have rested with the club not Meis. He will have been given a brief and in my view has more than delivered on it. You seem to be suggesting that the 52k+ we have was because Meis didn't listen to the fans. I respectfully disagree.

And ultimately we are struggling to find the funds for the "small" version. Had we gone for over 60k work may already have ground to a halt .

No I’m not suggesting Meis decided it should be smaller, that was Moshiri’s call because he wanted it ‘built to a budget’ but Meis could have argued the case knowing the strength of feeling from the fans who attended the St.Lukes meetings.

The ‘build to a budget’ notion from Moshiri was made well ahead of the Russian invasion of Ukraine… the problems with funding are down to him and the previous board and particularly the former CEO who told us repeated porkies about funding being close to being finalised… when it was no such thing.

The post-invasion sanctions on Usmanov and the loss of the USM naming rights deal came after the event of repeated failures by Moshiri and the Kenwright board to secure external funding.

 

[charlie atkins]

Had an email offering 'seasonal membership' where they offer some sort of food and drink, and a seat near the half way line. Any idea what they're asking for these, and do you pay up front for them??

Around 3000, about 170 a game, free food and drink

 

[charlie atkins]

If we had gone for 62,000 we would be in administration now

 

[Davideeyore]

13k is a big step up from Goodison.

Just another bug bear of mine.

If it's not the actual figure of 13k it's the percentage increase. Something like 30% bigger than Goodison. This is a bit deceiving. Goodison's capacity has been quite low for many years now. It's actually gone down some time ago it was 40000 something. After the full all-seater changes.

If you want comparisons it would be the likes of Arsenal (38) Tottenham (36) and West Ham (36 I think) was their capacities before they left their homes.
There'll always be different sides to the argument. Man U, Liverpool, City, Newcastle, and Chelsea and Villa have all redeveloped over time and increased incrementally, which I think is how Everton have left the new stadium in the future. If there's a demand. Like City are expanding now. It very much depends how things are in the future.

It's just the comparison to Goodison's current capacity, but it's actually it's quite low.

I remember in the 80's over 50000. I know my dad was there when we had the record crowd of 78k. Like I said there's always different sides to an argument
I'll be shot down about the comparison to London clubs because they're, well, London clubs. And Man U, City and Liverpool are more successful than us. Yada yada yada. Can't win.