New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Tom Hughes]

The stadium being over 50% built puts us in an incredible position.

Yes the bank of "daddy"and "stripped the bone" is another one of your awful takes.

It's a growing asset that adds sheer value. But yeah transport links etc. jog on.

"An incredible position".....? It will only be incredible if Moshiri wipes the club's debt out tout suite by taking the hit.... or someone of real wealth absorbs it. Otherwise it could be incredibly catastrophic, which why shark investors are currently trying to buy us on the drip.

Awful takes? Feel free to dispute any of them. No funding secured via any major financial instutions at any point means it was completely bank of daddy. Negative net spend on the team over the past 2+ yrs, while in back to back relegation battles.... selling valuable playing assets and now paying fortunes just in interest payments on essentially emergency pay day loans, just to keep the project and the club running.

Oh, now you want to talk about transport?

Jog on indeed....

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Sadly, it now has the appearance of a massive millstone around our neck .
Can take little pleasure in it currently.
It was necessary to increase our revenue , but instead it has broken us and left us badly injured and attracting sharks who will devour us before we play our first game there.

 

[Dixieslaces]

i can’t get excited i keep wanting to

i’ve just got it we will be in the championship with this

and it’s an anchor

Think I said this to the missus the other night

 

[The binman chronicles]

i can’t get excited i keep wanting to

i’ve just got it we will be in the championship with this

and it’s an anchor

Keep telling you this Matty, the anchor was that no one sorted anything out beforehand. The stadium is our only way out, if we don't get the income boost of the new stadium we would be playing catch up to all the teams that dare to grow.

Of course it is Everton so we built exactly at the wrong time but that would have happened any point in history, we just have to put on our big boy pants and get on with it.

 

[Tom Hughes]

T

Keep telling you this Matty, the anchor was that no one sorted anything out beforehand. The stadium is our only way out, if we don't get the income boost of the new stadium we would be playing catch up to all the teams that dare to grow.

Of course it is Everton so we built exactly at the wrong time but that would have happened any point in history, we just have to put on our big boy pants and get on with it.

The major difference is they "dared to grow" within their means and organically. Our solution was the same as our on pitch investment.... money-no-object spend, spend, spend till it works. Sod the consequences! The fact is, there are always financial limits and ultimately the cost or resultant debt has to land somewhere. Invariably some or all of that will land on the club when the funder sells up (unless he gifts it), and then those sums have to start adding up. The funder is currently trying to drop the hot potato ASAP because it's skinned him.

Even at this progressed stage, no-one appears able to give an accurate projection for income at BMD. The interest alone on the recent loans are apparently of the order of £34m+ per year.... nevermind the overall cost if he passes the rest of that cost on to the new owners. So the recent loan debt alone may require trippling matchday income just to break even, and the total debt would be much higher. So where is any income boost coming from?

 

[The binman chronicles]

T

The major difference is they "dared to grow" within their means and organically. Our solution was the same as our on pitch investment.... money-no-object spend, spend, spend till it works. Sod the consequences! The fact is, there are always financial limits and ultimately the cost or resultant debt has to land somewhere. Invariably some or all of that will land on the club when the funder sells up (unless he gifts it), and then those sums have to start adding up. The funder is currently trying to drop the hot potato ASAP because it's skinned him.

Even at this progressed stage, no-one appears able to give an accurate projection for income at BMD. The interest alone on the recent loans are apparently of the order of £34m+ per year.... nevermind the overall cost if he passes the rest of that cost on to the new owners. So the recent loan debt alone may require trippling matchday income just to break even, and the total debt would be much higher. So where is any income boost coming from?

The intrest is that high due to it being with three or for lenders, the key to anyone taking over and being a success is to consolidate these with a reputable and proper institution. As said before even if we struggle in this area to start with doesn't mean it will always be that case, rates could start to go down if the economy tanks fairly soon giving the opportunity for bankers to see it as a nice long term safe return.

Our stadium was 500 million to start with that went up by 50% due to events out of our control, yes we could have done it cheaper elsewhere but we are hardly talking about an extravagant build here. You yourself have talked about missed opportunities regarding retractable roofs and way more executive boxes so you can't have it both ways.

What is done is done and even if in the first few years our extra goes on debt repayment we are still getting effectively a stadium for free, meaning it generates what it costs. That puts us in a better position than we are at Goodison as it starts to open up avenues unavailable to us as it stands.

 

[Dublin blue 75]

The intrest is that high due to it being with three or for lenders, the key to anyone taking over and being a success is to consolidate these with a reputable and proper institution. As said before even if we struggle in this area to start with doesn't mean it will always be that case, rates could start to go down if the economy tanks fairly soon giving the opportunity for bankers to see it as a nice long term safe return.

Our stadium was 500 million to start with that went up by 50% due to events out of our control, yes we could have done it cheaper elsewhere but we are hardly talking about an extravagant build here. You yourself have talked about missed opportunities regarding retractable roofs and way more executive boxes so you can't have it both ways.

What is done is done and even if in the first few years our extra goes on debt repayment we are still getting effectively a stadium for free, meaning it generates what it costs. That puts us in a better position than we are at Goodison as it starts to open up avenues unavailable to us as it stands.

Indeed. We are paying RMF £24M annually (12% on £200m) and now also paying 777 £3.6M (18% on £20m) excluding likely fees added to both and there is also another overdraft with a spanish bank. That's 15-20% of all of our income on interest and unlikely we are paying down any of the principal.

The fact we have gone from 12% to 18% on the most recent borrowing should be a flashing warning sign as to our credit worthiness and why no reputable institutions will touch us with a barge pole right now. The club's finances need a fundamental reset and my sense is they will indeed get worse and trigger a credit event (to likely include a work stoppage on BMD), before they will get better. Longer term, the debt (excluding loans to Moshiri which will be written off in a transaction or credit event) will be restructured and stretched out a sub 10% rate to a pension fund. What happens between here and then may not be pleasant.

 

[greener]

Indeed. We are paying RMF £24M annually (12% on £200m) and now also paying 777 £3.6M (18% on £20m) excluding likely fees added to both and there is also another overdraft with a spanish bank. That's 15-20% of all of our income on interest and unlikely we are paying down any of the principal.

The fact we have gone from 12% to 18% on the most recent borrowing should be a flashing warning sign as to our credit worthiness and why no reputable institutions will touch us with a barge pole right now. The club's finances need a fundamental reset and my sense is they will indeed get worse and trigger a credit event (to likely include a work stoppage on BMD), before they will get better. Longer term, the debt (excluding loans to Moshiri which will be written off in a transaction or credit event) will be restructured and stretched out a sub 10% rate to a pension fund. What happens between here and then may not be pleasant.

Christ, it was only last year WHU fans were castigating their owner for charging 4 to 6% on loans to the club!

We wish.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

T

The major difference is they "dared to grow" within their means and organically. Our solution was the same as our on pitch investment.... money-no-object spend, spend, spend till it works. Sod the consequences! The fact is, there are always financial limits and ultimately the cost or resultant debt has to land somewhere. Invariably some or all of that will land on the club when the funder sells up (unless he gifts it), and then those sums have to start adding up. The funder is currently trying to drop the hot potato ASAP because it's skinned him.

Even at this progressed stage, no-one appears able to give an accurate projection for income at BMD. The interest alone on the recent loans are apparently of the order of £34m+ per year.... nevermind the overall cost if he passes the rest of that cost on to the new owners. So the recent loan debt alone may require trippling matchday income just to break even, and the total debt would be much higher. So where is any income boost coming from?

All very true .
But to be fair geopolitical events have scuppered our plans .
We needed a new stadium to boost our revenue to have any hope of regaining the ground we have lost during the last 3 decades.
Everton seem to always time things to coincide with disruption due to wars ! Reigning champions at the outset of both world wars and now this !
It is now apparent that our moment as a genuine top club has irrevocably past , all we have left is continuing pursuit of survival at all costs.
Although I do wonder what exactly we are surviving for?
Personally, and I know most would disagree, I would take a total reset and start from scratch, rather than the continuation of this purgatorial existence we have endured for at least 3 decades.
Return the stadium to being a largely disused dock .
Wont happen like, just my preference in the current situation.

 

[marnie]

 

[Bedfordblue]

Indeed. We are paying RMF £24M annually (12% on £200m) and now also paying 777 £3.6M (18% on £20m) excluding likely fees added to both and there is also another overdraft with a spanish bank. That's 15-20% of all of our income on interest and unlikely we are paying down any of the principal.

Where are these figures from / substantiated out of interest?

 

[Dublin blue 75]

Where are these figures from / substantiated out of interest?

The guardian have reported on RMF being a 150m - since increase to 200m - drawn loan. They worked back the interest income booked per last years accounts for RMF filed in the UK to derive the effective interest rate charged. And we were the only footballing club client for that particular lending entity if memory serves.

As for 777 interest rate, that is what has been speculated on but not denied by either 777 or the club.

 

[Kever10]

We need 2 stadium threads.

1 for updates, footage and pictures, for those that enjoy that side of things, and 1 for theoretical financial models, moaning about what is happening or already happened, and Moshiri/Kenwright etc, for those who like spoiling peoples enjoyment.

Thread bans for people who stray off topic.

Make it happen mods.

P. S. Ill happily take a thread ban for this 1 for going off topic. Its ruined anyway.

 

[devo85]

Let's get back to Stadium updates.

 

[blueblue]

The new stadium has not caused the mess at Everton, that is separate.

In my opinion the new stadium is one of the very few optimistic things about this club at present.