New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Jacko93]

Or moshiri sits on prime land in the middle of the proposed Liverpool waters redevelopment and forces the council to get involved. The insinuation that he will complete the stadium build just because he needs to is absurd.

If its not completed then the terms of the lease are broken and it retuns back to full ownership of Peel. Moshiri or Everton cant 'sit' on anything.

 

[Dr Baxter]

If push comes to shove I have no doubt that Mosh will do whatever it takes to protect his bank balance, even if it burns the club.

He has to sell the club as a going concern or he doesn't get any of his money back. That's the point. If the club is in such a state that he doesn't get 2 bob for it, what's the sense in that?

I think (just a hunch) he pays for the ground, he sells EFC as a football club and gets his money back but keeps the stadium and rents it to EFC. One things for certain, once GP is demolished there ain't no going back.

 

[Jacko93]

It is very likely (not a stone cold sober fact) that he (or his backer) has got the readies to complete the stadium. The issue has always been what the ultimate debt will be to the club or any potential new owner, going forward. The original plan was for a 60k+ stadium substantially funded by a commonwealth games. When the bid failed, that had to be revised to a 52k+ stadium, which was supposed to be funded by the owner plus by a loan secured by the club. With Uncle Ussy providing a lucrative sponsorship deal to cover all those on-going costs. That loan package has still not been secured and the Russian has been sanctioned. The financial plan was sketchy at £500m.... but we all turned a blind eye because bank of daddy ruled, and all expenses were covered. At £760m, with no bottomless pit sponsor and potential relegation, that financial plan looks at least as precarious as Valencia's. Hence the inability to secure an attractive loan deal and the on-going search for new investors.... and possibly the reason for our inability to secure any urgently needed new players, despite selling £100m+ worth in the past 6 months. We've had their scatter gun economics on the pitch that has left us completely hamstrung. Have they been equally and as dangerously frivolous with the stadium financial plan?

You keep saying this, but it simply isnt true. The ORIGINAL plan was never to involve the commonwealth games. It was however something that came into the early conversations as a way to further benefit the city and enable other financing routes to assist with the stadium costs.

 

[allen]

A couple of points I'd love to know the answers but have not fact checked.

Who actually owns Goodison park? And will the assets from the sale of it go towards BMD?

Everton owns Goodison Park. I'm not sure how ownership of the legacy project will work, but there will be expense in the demolition and rebuilding work.

I imagine there will be the opportunity for profit via the sale of land and the sale / letting of buildings.

Somebody mentioned above BMD will NEVER be owned by Everton, surely the owner or buyer of Everton is Everton.

The dock itself won't be owned by Everton, but the stadium will.

How does the ownership of the new ground become the property of a 3rd party?

Everton would have to sell the ground to a third party if we were to 'lose' the stadium.

Apologies for the numpty questions.

I think they were good questions - hopefully my answers are right!

 

[Billy Dean]

He has to sell the club as a going concern or he doesn't get any of his money back. That's the point. If the club is in such a state that he doesn't get 2 bob for it, what's the sense in that?

I think (just a hunch) he pays for the ground, he sells EFC as a football club and gets his money back but keeps the stadium and rents it to EFC. One things for certain, once GP is demolished there ain't no going back.

I'd hope that anyone buying the club off him would also be able to buy the stadium too

 

[Jacko93]

I'd hope that anyone buying the club off him would also be able to buy the stadium too

Theres no way we'll get a buyer if the ground isn't part of the sale. The main reason for the build of the stadium was to make Everton a more viable business, utlising the stadium income as a route for finances to be made available. No serious buyer would buy without that, certainly not at a price that would have the right ears pricked up.

 

[Street end man]

Everton owns Goodison Park. I'm not sure how ownership of the legacy project will work, but there will be expense in the demolition and rebuilding work.

I imagine there will be the opportunity for profit via the sale of land and the sale / letting of buildings.



The dock itself won't be owned by Everton, but the stadium will.



Everton would have to sell the ground to a third party if we were to 'lose' the stadium.



I think they were good questions - hopefully my answers are right!

Many thanks for taking the time to answer, appreciated mate and some good answers too.

I understood BMD (the land) was if you like leasehold, which many houses are too, I would hope Goodison is Freehold and the land is owned by Everton, again I'm not sure of that.

As for demolition costs, what's your view on this? I personally, and I may be a million miles away, but I'd have thought it's basically a heritage site now. So rather than taking a wrecking ball to it the the idea should be to get careful salvage hunters in to take it down, there must be a heck of a lot of valuable and saleable historic components/stock there to offset costs, it's not scrap and I'd assume it'd yield valuable salvage?

One point you mention which was if we lose the ground we may have to sell to a 3rd party and lease back.
I understand that, are you meaning if Moshiri threw the towel in on us and sold to a 3rd party?

Surely then we'd revert back to Goodison and the development of that?How could the club be sold if we never had our own ground? Interesting points mate and thanks again for your input. Fascinating stuff.

 

[MikeH72]

If there’s one thing that they won’t mess up, it’s this stadium. Moshiri needs it completed. In the likely event we go down, he’ll sell the likes of Onana, Pickford and Dominic Calvert-Lewin to finance it. Interesting that not a penny of the Gordon money has been spent too.

Feels a bit like a millstone however, as we need it completed before he’ll sell. Hopefully doesn’t stop him completely gutting the boardroom in the interim.

Why would he do this now, after 7 years? He thinks they’re doing a good job, he said so last week.

 

[allen]

Many thanks for taking the time to answer, appreciated mate and some good answers too.

I understood BMD (the land) was if you like leasehold, which many houses are too, I would hope Goodison is Freehold and the land is owned by Everton, again I'm not sure of that.

Yes, leasehold houses is exactly the parallel I think of. I'm sure there are differences, but the rough concept is the same I think.

As for demolition costs, what's your view on this? I personally, and I may be a million miles away, but I'd have thought it's basically a heritage site now. So rather than taking a wrecking ball to it the the idea should be to get careful salvage hunters in to take it down, there must be a heck of a lot of valuable and saleable historic components/stock there to offset costs, it's not scrap and I'd assume it'd yield valuable salvage?

I have no idea how they'll approach this. But you'd imagine there will be a huge market for all sorts of memorabilia at Goodison. They'd be able to sell every single seat I imagine, for instance.

One point you mention which was if we lose the ground we may have to sell to a 3rd party and lease back.
I understand that, are you meaning if Moshiri threw the towel in on us and sold to a 3rd party?

Well I'm not imagining any scenario, really - but clubs do sometimes sell their grounds if they are short of cash. It's the only way we'd lose it, once it's built and paid for.

Surely then we'd revert back to Goodison and the development of that?How could the club be sold if we never had our own ground? Interesting points mate and thanks again for your input. Fascinating stuff.

If we sold the ground, I imagine we'd still play there. It's happened all over the country.

West Ham don't own their ground, for example.

 

[Street end man]

Yes, leasehold houses is exactly the parallel I think of. I'm sure there are differences, but the rough concept is the same I think.



I have no idea how they'll approach this. But you'd imagine there will be a huge market for all sorts of memorabilia at Goodison. They'd be able to sell every single seat I imagine, for instance.



Well I'm not imagining any scenario, really - but clubs do sometimes sell their grounds if they are short of cash. It's the only way we'd lose it, once it's built and paid for.


If we sold the ground, I imagine we'd still play there. It's happened all over the country.

West Ham don't own their ground, for example.

Many thanks again for your input and thoughts on it all, really interesting to get your views on it. It will be an interesting year or two to say the least. My view on the bigger picture is I'd rather stay at Goodison in a ground Everton owned than play at a stadium which belonged to foreign investors, just my view that. Obviously moving to BMD as owners is the goal, it has to be,. Thanks once more, nice one.

 

[degsy]

considering refs play extra extra added on time if a team is in a decent attacking position it was odd to blow up when a goal was imminent and football timekeeping instant exact discipline. I wonder how it would have panned out if it was thew other way around?

Like you have to even ask?

 

[allen]

Many thanks again for your input and thoughts on it all, really interesting to get you views on it. It will be an interesting year or two to say the least. My view on the bigger picture is I'd rather stay at Goodison in a ground Everton owned than play at a stadium which belonged to foreign investors, just my view that. Obviously moving to BMD as owners is the goal, it has to be,. Thanks once more, nice one.

Yes, I can absolutely understand that view.

I think we're more valuable as a Premier League club that owns its own stadium, as opposed to the combined value of a groundless Premier League club and a stadium as a separate entity, so I suspect that is the terms on which Moshiri will look to sell the club.

What happens if we get relegated, though, I don't know. I suspect Moshiri would want to get us promoted again instantly before looking to sell, but I honestly have no idea.

 

[Gardocki]

You keep saying this, but it simply isnt true. The ORIGINAL plan was never to involve the commonwealth games. It was however something that came into the early conversations as a way to further benefit the city and enable other financing routes to assist with the stadium costs.

Yes, this is my recollection too.

The plan/intention was to build a football stadium in BMD. Then the potential to incorporate the CWG into the stadium was explored and a concept image/stadium design was released. There was a lot of irritation among fans that the football stadium plan would be compromised by incorporating a running track for the CWG.

Everton/Moshiri had already committed to delivering a football stadium before Durban withdrew from the CWG and it became an issue.

 

[Street end man]

Yes, I can absolutely understand that view.

I think we're more valuable as a Premier League club that owns its own stadium, as opposed to the combined value of a groundless Premier League club and a stadium as a separate entity, so I suspect that is the terms on which Moshiri will look to sell the club.

What happens if we get relegated, though, I don't know. I suspect Moshiri would want to get us promoted again instantly before looking to sell, but I honestly have no idea.

I agree with all of that mate.

As for the relegation point, my view as a die hard is we will not go down, still far from over.

However if the worst happened which it all too easily could then once again I agree with your thinking. Moshiri would need to get the club back up to recoup the massive losses that would entail, coupled with the investments he's already made for no return as of yet.

Him selling in the near future rests on us being in the top flight, unthinkable to sell as a mid table championship side for the figures they'd be hoping.

Which leads me to another daft question. Why have we not strengthened/used the Gordon money to at least try and ensure we stay up without a fight, other teams around us have, with not as much resting on it.

Where has this money gone do you reckon? Small fry in the scheme of things to reinvest it in a striker or two. I don't subscribe to this "Nobody will come here" nonsense.

In all this mystery and intrigue surrounding this I'm honestly seeing signs Moshiri is not the owner, which is scarier for me than anything else.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Yes, I can absolutely understand that view.

I think we're more valuable as a Premier League club that owns its own stadium, as opposed to the combined value of a groundless Premier League club and a stadium as a separate entity, so I suspect that is the terms on which Moshiri will look to sell the club.

What happens if we get relegated, though, I don't know. I suspect Moshiri would want to get us promoted again instantly before looking to sell, but I honestly have no idea.

Man city don't even own their stadium as far as I know - unless they bought it back off the council recently.