New Everton Stadium Discussion

[gazzaa2]

If Moshiri were to pull the plug, surely that calls into question whether the ground will actually be finished being built. Considering how erratic he is capable of being I think it´s now a distinct possibility this will happen. The fact he seems to believe he´s been treated unfairly by the fans only serves to make me think he´ll be even more inclined to pull the plug on funding.

It's like HS2. Too far down the line to stop so the money has to be found to finish it.

 

[trueblue84]

Stay at Goodison and what changes while Villa, Wolves and Leicester all bypass our 30 something thousand stadium with 50 thousand ones. Prospective owners won't want to buy into Everton and try and pump in millions on a Goodison rebuild or a new stadium elsewhere after seeing what happened at the docks (if it failed and never got finished) so we will become a museum piece. No increase in matchday revenue, no blue-chip sponsors, we'll get left behind by all and sundry.

I get that, but my point is that fans seem to believe the new stadium will happen without issue just because it's better than accepting it won't. There are major concerns over the stadium getting finished, especially with our current plight. Why is nobody challenging the club/owner on who is funding the build or why it's suddenly gone from a guaranteed 500m to 750m? This could all blow up on our faces and be another nail in the coffin. I'm staggered that our fans are just going along with it.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

If Moshiri were to pull the plug, surely that calls into question whether the ground will actually be finished being built. Considering how erratic he is capable of being I think it´s now a distinct possibility this will happen. The fact he seems to believe he´s been treated unfairly by the fans only serves to make me think he´ll be even more inclined to pull the plug on funding.

Surely Farthead will want a return on all the money he's putting...if he walks he loses all of that.

 

[trueblue84]

It's like HS2. Too far down the line to stop so the money has to be found to finish it.

Firstly, HS2 is a bad example. They have pretty much stopped it at Birmingham. Second, there is no way somebody will spend 200m just because they've already spent 300m. The stadium can be halted and will be halted if moshiri decides he's had enough or we go down. Both seem inevitable, it's just a case of which comes first.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The clubs you mention redeveloped incrementally over several years.... Wolves are infact redeveloping for a second time.

And...? Doesn't make difference one jot. Villa Park is far more attractive and modern than Goodison, they knock down one end, rebuild and they are done. Leicester's identikit stadium can easily be updated as per Cardiff's on the cheap. Wolves again did the expensive base part when things were cheaper.

Goodison wouldn’t break even for decades with an update. Stop talking about it.

 

[Jamiednm]

Firstly, HS2 is a bad example. They have pretty much stopped it at Birmingham. Second, there is no way somebody will spend 200m just because they've already spent 300m. The stadium can be halted and will be halted if moshiri decides he's had enough or we go down. Both seem inevitable, it's just a case of which comes first.

That doesn't make any sense. If the stadium is abandoned, then all money already committed to it is written off altogether. Meeting the remaining expenses means Moshiri/Everton have an asset which will then generate new revenue.

You don't choose to not complete a project like this, you only abandon it if you literally have no other choice.

 

[trueblue84]

That doesn't make any sense. If the stadium is abandoned, then all money already committed to it is written off altogether. Meeting the remaining expenses means Moshiri/Everton have an asset which will then generate new revenue.

You don't choose to not complete a project like this, you only abandon it if you literally have no other choice.

Or moshiri sits on prime land in the middle of the proposed Liverpool waters redevelopment and forces the council to get involved. The insinuation that he will complete the stadium build just because he needs to is absurd.

 

[Tom Hughes]

And...? Doesn't make difference one jot. Villa Park is far more attractive and modern than Goodison, they knock down one end, rebuild and they are done. Leicester's identikit stadium can easily be updated as per Cardiff's on the cheap. Wolves again did the expensive base part when things were cheaper.

Goodison wouldn’t break even for decades with an update. Stop talking about it.

You made the comparison, not me! Villa had to knock a whole street down too. Wolves also expanded their footprint. We've spent £100m just prepping the site and a total of £750m to get to just 52k seats. Both of those clubs will have had a tiny fraction of our prep and total outlay. I think we are seeing that these things matter far more than a jot....

 

[peteblue]

Hopefully a NEW Everton in OUR new home, without the liars who've destroyed OUR club

I love the night views….

 

[John BCN]

The reality is that nobody has a clue what would happen with the stadium if we went down. We don't even know for sure if Moshiri is skint or if he has billions stashed away offshore. Even if we did, it's impossible to predict what he might do as his behaviour is so erratic and illogical. There are plenty of valid questions to be asked about this but it's probably not worth working yourself up about either.

 

[The binman chronicles]

You made the comparison, not me! Villa had to knock a whole street down too. Wolves also expanded their footprint. We've spent £100m just prepping the site and a total of £750m to get to just 52k seats. Both of those clubs will have had a tiny fraction of our prep and total outlay. I think we are seeing that these things matter far more than a jot....

If you extend a stadium to get 10k extra bums on seats Villa would have to pay what 80 to 100 million.

The rest of the stadium is perfectly serviceable. So we'll take the higher figure for ease of math sake, cost per seat £10000 given ticket prices and extra revenues perhaps they break even in 8-10 years given interest.

For us to get to that point we need to knock down and upgrade at least 3 stands and half a dozen streets to do it properly. 300 million, although it won't be as by the time you do one it will be 5 to 10 years so all the costs will increase. Our 30k per seat cost will end up with us spending large amounts of our income to pay it off for decades. Our tickets are cheaper and each stand will only bring marginal gains as it will be 13k instead of 10k etc. as you go through the build. We'd run out of money by the time we'd have finished two stands.

The whole point of the new stadium is on day one you have the whole increased extra capacity all paying more than in the previous stadium, eating/drinking more, better hospitality that people might want to pay in a better area and you get the stadiun sponsorship which you would never get from Goodison. One practically pays for itself due to the extra income generated and the other would mean out of our merge income we would have to find the full 300 million plus interest. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Tom Hughes]

If you extend a stadium to get 10k extra bums on seats Villa would have to pay what 80 to 100 million.

The rest of the stadium is perfectly serviceable. So we'll take the higher figure for ease of math sake, cost per seat £10000 given ticket prices and extra revenues perhaps they break even in 8-10 years given interest.

For us to get to that point we need to knock down and upgrade at least 3 stands and half a dozen streets to do it properly. 300 million, although it won't be as by the time you do one it will be 5 to 10 years so all the costs will increase. Our 30k per seat cost will end up with us spending large amounts of our income to pay it off for decades. Our tickets are cheaper and each stand will only bring marginal gains as it will be 13k instead of 10k etc. as you go through the build. We'd run out of money by the time we'd have finished two stands.

The whole point of the new stadium is on day one you have the whole increased extra capacity all paying more than in the previous stadium, eating/drinking more, better hospitality that people might want to pay in a better area and you get the stadiun sponsorship which you would never get from Goodison. One practically pays for itself due to the extra income generated and the other would mean out of our merge income we would have to find the full 300 million plus interest. It isn't rocket science.

You're right.... it isn't rocket science. Which is why the clubs you mentioned and most larger clubs have done precisely that. Wolves are not spending anywhere near £10k per seat. It's only £10k per seat if you are building stands as large as Anfield's mainstand, which is of a similar scale to Wembley's stands.... the resultant stand was considerably less than 10k per seat in terms of construction cost. There is no need to replace 3 whole stands at all. Just replacing the upper tiers will suffice. Replacing the upper Bullens with a 8-10k upper tier and extending the lower with 2k extra seats and extending the Park end could be achieved at anything between £4-10k per seat, dependent on volume of construction, structural complexity and back of house provision. The lower tiers can all be reprofiled at a fraction of a new build cost. There is no need to demolish half a dozen streets at all. There are only 2 streets abutting the Bullens and nothing at all at the Park end. A few stadium architects have shown this and how it can be achieved without loss of capacity too.... to easily reach or surpass BMD's capacity.

Even your own broadbrush figures show that adding 12k net capacity to an existing stadium is always going to cost a fraction of BMD.

 

[Noggsy blue]

I love the night views….

Thank you, hopefully a new era with new ownership

 

[Johnnytotal]

You're right.... it isn't rocket science. Which is why the clubs you mentioned and most larger clubs have done precisely that. Wolves are not spending anywhere near £10k per seat. It's only £10k per seat if you are building stands as large as Anfield's mainstand, which is of a similar scale to Wembley's stands.... the resultant stand was considerably less than 10k per seat in terms of construction cost. There is no need to replace 3 whole stands at all. Just replacing the upper tiers will suffice. Replacing the upper Bullens with a 8-10k upper tier and extending the lower with 2k extra seats and extending the Park end could be achieved at anything between £4-10k per seat, dependent on volume of construction, structural complexity and back of house provision. The lower tiers can all be reprofiled at a fraction of a new build cost. There is no need to demolish half a dozen streets at all. There are only 2 streets abutting the Bullens and nothing at all at the Park end. A few stadium architects have shown this and how it can be achieved without loss of capacity too.... to easily reach or surpass BMD's capacity.

Even your own broadbrush figures show that adding 12k net capacity to an existing stadium is always going to cost a fraction of BMD.

Location Location Location

 

[Dr Baxter]

Firstly, HS2 is a bad example. They have pretty much stopped it at Birmingham. Second, there is no way somebody will spend 200m just because they've already spent 300m. The stadium can be halted and will be halted if moshiri decides he's had enough or we go down. Both seem inevitable, it's just a case of which comes first.

One thing we are forgetting here is that Moshiri HAS got the money to finish the stadium. That is a stone cold sober fact. People quoting what happened to Valencia have to understand that a financial collapse of the Spanish economy during the start of a world recession did for that stadium. I understand that doesn't mean that it WILL get finished. Only Moshiri can answer that question.