New Everton Stadium Discussion

[alvinh]

You make fair, if vaguely unproveable 'yeah but what if' points, not quite opinion masquerading as fact...you may even be right
But good luck with that last bit...see spurs and arsenal.

The club should be preparing fans for a relatively tough few years transfer budget wise. Arsenal had Wenger to steer them through that period and he never got enough credit for keeping them in CL on a reduced budget. Guess this is where Brands is going to have to work his magic?

 

[PhilM]

You make fair, if vaguely unproveable 'yeah but what if' points, not quite opinion masquerading as fact...you may even be right
But good luck with that last bit...see spurs and arsenal.

We need to move from Goodison because of its clear limitations (views, corporate capacity etc.) and people want an iconic, top class stadium on the waterfront.

All that comes at a price which will undoubtedly have some form of impact on our finances as Moshiri can't (and wouldn't!) lump the cash up front for the stadium.

An improved capacity will have some form of improvement on our finances but in reality the real income comes from TV and sponsorship fuelled by success.

In reality, a new stadium will add value to the club which will help Moshiri in the long run. We get the benefit of some improved revenue and additional stature.

 

[degsy]

The club should be preparing fans for a relatively tough few years transfer budget wise. Arsenal had Wenger to steer them through that period and he never got enough credit for keeping them in CL on a reduced budget. Guess this is where Brands is going to have to work his magic?

Totally agree.

We need to move from Goodison because of its clear limitations (views, corporate capacity etc.) and people want an iconic, top class stadium on the waterfront.

All that comes at a price which will undoubtedly have some form of impact on our finances as Moshiri can't (and wouldn't!) lump the cash up front for the stadium.

An improved capacity will have some form of improvement on our finances but in reality the real income comes from TV and sponsorship fuelled by success.

In reality, a new stadium will add value to the club which will help Moshiri in the long run. We get the benefit of some improved revenue and additional stature.

Totally agree.

But, as @Baileyjon (and Elstone alluded to at the AGM) says; if If the predicted build costs go too high...and thus maybe long-term finance costs too.
It just won't get done.

 

[PhilM]

But, as @Baileyjon (and Elstone alluded to at the AGM) says; if If the predicted build costs go too high...and thus maybe long-term finance costs too.
It just won't get done.

Rightly or wrongly, if the stadium doesn't materialise (affordability is a fair point) then I think there'll be a significant level of disenchantment reaching to unrest.

The club has had a number of false dawns over the past two and a bit decades with King's Dock and Kirby being the more prominent, but WHP and Tarbock too.

Do we as fans lower our expectations and accept a compromise or does the club continue to show a chronic lack of ambition? I don't know the answer to be fair.

Either way, I would expect the back lash to be quite a torrent as it would be the second iconic stadium that was promised but hadn't come to any fruition.

In fact, they couldn't even get the monstrous Destination Kirby over the line and WHP was pie-in-the-sky, so there would be no trust they could provide anything.

There is a lot riding on this stadium and I expect they know that. What we as fans must understand however, is that we're not going to get a top-notch stadium.

 

[degsy]

Rightly or wrongly, if the stadium doesn't materialise (affordability is a fair point) then I think there'll be a significant level of disenchantment reaching to unrest.

The club has had a number of false dawns over the past two and a bit decades with King's Dock and Kirby being the more prominent, but WHP and Tarbock too.

Do we as fans lower our expectations and accept a compromise or does the club continue to show a chronic lack of ambition? I don't know the answer to be fair.

Either way, I would expect the back lash to be quite a torrent as it would be the second iconic stadium that was promised but hadn't come to any fruition.

In fact, they couldn't even get the monstrous Destination Kirby over the line and WHP was pie-in-the-sky, so there would be no trust they could provide anything.

There is a lot riding on this stadium and I expect they know that. What we as fans must understand however, is that we're not going to get a top-notch stadium.

I think some were and still are, expecting New Whitehart Lane sur la Mersey.
If it all turns to custard financially, which is the only way it won't happen...and it could - the alternative will be
Commence Operation Re-develop Bullens Rd.

 

[bicycleheader]

I think some were and still are, expecting New Whitehart Lane sur la Mersey.
If it all turns to custard financially, which is the only way it won't happen...and it could - the alternative will be
Commence Operation Re-develop Bullens Rd.

Operation Slightly Bigger Stand

 

[PhilM]

I think some were and still are, expecting New Whitehart Lane sur la Mersey.
If it all turns to custard financially, which is the only way it won't happen...and it could - the alternative will be
Commence Operation Re-develop Bullens Rd.

For me, this is a non-starter at all and the club have mentioned the same, albeit they have vested interests. There simply isn't the space for a major development.

I know there's been fans who've done drawings etc. which suggest it is feasible, but knowing the area and the issues with residents over Analfield, it's fanciful.

There's a school building less than 16 metres away from the Bullens with houses even closer on Muriel Street and Diana Street. The footprint simply isn't there.

How long would reduced capacity be? What would the cost be? Would they need to renovate three of the four stands? Unfortunately, it's a move or nothing for me.

Our new stadium won't be a shoebox, or I hope it's not, but let's be honest we're paying a premium for location and the remedial works needed to facilitate it.

If like you suggest the numbers do not stack up, then I think we'd all need to take a long, hard look at the options and perhaps, regrettably, go for something less.

Goodison doesn't bring in the revenue or status that the club either wants or needs and will only continue to decline with sub-standard views and facilities.

Nobody wants to be stuck out in the sticks in some field or next to a retail park (certainly not me), however this may be the last chance saloon for the club.

 

[degsy]

Operation Slightly Bigger Stand

Then that would make The Derby...FC Small Stand Vs FC Big Stand.
The Bullens would be stage 1, with stages 2, 3 and finally The ParkEnd, stage 4.
I wonder why it wasn't started 10, 15+ yrs ago?
All answers to that question start with this letter

 

[Toffeeslam]

I think some were and still are, expecting New Whitehart Lane sur la Mersey.
If it all turns to custard financially, which is the only way it won't happen...and it could - the alternative will be
Commence Operation Re-develop Bullens Rd.

We would need to bulldoze the school and houses on Diane and Muriel st. Not to mention the huge craines and heavy equipment that would be needed for the demolition and rebuild.

Can you imagine if you lived in the area the around the ground the disruption it would cause ? Not to mention where would we play while all this is going on ? The footprint is small even with the school and houses gone.

This would have to be the absolute last resort and would be mired in court with residents kicking up a fuss about the noise and sunlight being blocked by the craines and huge stand that would be needed.

Bramley-Moore you don’t have those constraints and could build without having to mitigate those risks, redevelopment of Goodison is something we all would prefer but just not feasible as it stands now

 

[degsy]

For me, this is a non-starter at all and the club have mentioned the same, albeit they have vested interests. There simply isn't the space for a major development.

I know there's been fans who've done drawings etc. which suggest it is feasible, but knowing the area and the issues with residents over Analfield, it's fanciful.

There's a school building less than 16 metres away from the Bullens with houses even closer on Muriel Street and Diana Street. The footprint simply isn't there.

How long would reduced capacity be? What would the cost be? Would they need to renovate three of the four stands? Unfortunately, it's a move or nothing for me.

Our new stadium won't be a shoebox, or I hope it's not, but let's be honest we're paying a premium for location and the remedial works needed to facilitate it.

If like you suggest the numbers do not stack up, then I think we'd all need to take a long, hard look at the options and perhaps, regrettably, go for something less.

Goodison doesn't bring in the revenue or status that the club either wants or needs and will only continue to decline with sub-standard views and facilities.

Nobody wants to be stuck out in the sticks in some field or next to a retail park (certainly not me), however this may be the last chance saloon for the club.

Can't argue with most of that.
But Tom Hughes, to name but one, while being a fan, has done a bit more than fan drawings.
Re development Can be done.
Lets wait until it actually fails...if it does...before looking at Plan B.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Rightly or wrongly, if the stadium doesn't materialise (affordability is a fair point) then I think there'll be a significant level of disenchantment reaching to unrest.

The club has had a number of false dawns over the past two and a bit decades with King's Dock and Kirby being the more prominent, but WHP and Tarbock too.

Do we as fans lower our expectations and accept a compromise or does the club continue to show a chronic lack of ambition? I don't know the answer to be fair.

Either way, I would expect the back lash to be quite a torrent as it would be the second iconic stadium that was promised but hadn't come to any fruition.

In fact, they couldn't even get the monstrous Destination Kirby over the line and WHP was pie-in-the-sky, so there would be no trust they could provide anything.

There is a lot riding on this stadium and I expect they know that. What we as fans must understand however, is that we're not going to get a top-notch stadium.

If the fans need to understand that we’re not going to get a top notch stadium, then the club need to understand that they have to stop telling the fans we’re going to get a top notch stadium.

 

[PhilM]

Can't argue with most of that.
But Tom Hughes, to name but one, while being a fan, has done a bit more than fan drawings.
Re development Can be done.
Lets wait until it actually fails...if it does...before looking at Plan B.

Whether it can be done isn't the issue. I think the point is whether it is a viable option when you consider the time scale and cost versus the benefits.

Would we get a significant increase in capacity that we desire? If so, would it be viable versus the financial cost? Length of projects versus loss of revenue?

Basically, I believe that it could be done but I don't think anyone in their right mind would fund it and I would question what we'd actually end up with.

If the fans need to understand that we’re not going to get a top notch stadium, then the club need to understand that they have to stop telling the fans we’re going to get a top notch stadium.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree and I feel that the club have already begun to subtly scale-down the reported ambition of the project through snippets of info.

In reality, we do not fully know what's happening behind the scenes however I suspect financial restraints are causing the club to somewhat tighten their belts.

The issue is that the club talked the stadium up and now, most likely, do not want to openly go back on this as it may be perceived as a weakness on their behalf.

Add to that, the club's record of communication with the fans is pretty pitiful overall, so maybe it's also a legacy of that. They're very rarely clear on releasing news.

Nevertheless, we as a fan base don't help either as some of the desires and expectations (including on here) are fanciful at best; we need to be realistic.

 

[MickA]

If the fans need to understand that we’re not going to get a top notch stadium, then the club need to understand that they have to stop telling the fans we’re going to get a top notch stadium.

Depends what is meant by 'top notch' though really, it's a broad term.

Will it be the a highest rated FIFA accredited stadium? More than likely.
Will it be excellent for broadcast/future IT developments? You'd like to think so.
Will it be atmospheric and feel like a tight arena? So we're being told.
Will it have excellent top end corporate facilities? Again, you'd like to think so especially with the Main Stand paralell to the river.
Will it have a range of different corp tiers? We'll have to wait and see.
Will it have good facilities for the 'average fan'? No reason whatsoever why it won't.
Will it have crushed Goodison aggregate as part of a polished concourse floor? To be honest probably no but do we need that?
Will it look like Heathrow T5 like NWHL in the concourses? Again probably not but is it necessary?
Will it look iconic? Time will tell.

I don't think for a minute it will be as 'nice' as NWHL but as long as the facilities for all are acceptable and the arena itself generates atmosphere does the rest really matter?

 

[Baileyjon]

I think the development at the Bramley Moore Dock is the right option but only if it is affordable and doesn't impact on the money we can invest in the playing squad. The position we are in now is down to decades of inaction and missed opportunities. That isn't down to Moshiri but he is the one who can put it right. Hopefully he can come up with a way of funding the Stadium that allows us to grow on and off the pitch.

What we shouldn't do though is jump blindly in to the BMD development if the numbers don't stack up for the Club. Yes it would be nice to be part of the regeneration of North Liverpool but not if it puts the Club at risk.

 

[RobSpurs]

Will it have crushed Goodison aggregate as part of a polished concourse floor? To be honest probably no but do we need that?

It's s great selling point, but it was actually a cost saving - reusing this stuff saved on 1000s of lorry journey through the capital and the cost of buying new material. Levy was probably rubbing his hands together when he was told we could do that.

It might be a bit different for you because your new place obviously won't be on the same site.