Nathan Broadhead

[catcherintherye]

For sure, I hope he makes it as we need good players. Like you say though, Dowell has shown an awful lot more, both for a successful England youth team, and in his loan spells to date. If we're assessing two players who are the same age, you'd have to say Dowell is a long way ahead of Broadhead, but we'll see I suppose. It's perhaps pertinent to remember that both Dowell and Broadhead are the same age as Vlasic who despite having over 160 senior games under his belt, exposure in the CL and international caps for Croatia was deemed not good enough for our team. You'd have to say he's way ahead of the two youth products we're talking about here, so they'll have a job to impact our first team imo.

I agree with all of what you are saying. When I try to evaluate younger players I make a similar judgement call. You look at where they are compared to their peers. For that reason I have always poured cold water on Broadhead, even as an under 18 when he scored a lot of goals.

I am not sure the final step is quite as mechanical as that though. What you are basically saying is the judgement of one person can trump all the other people along the process.

It's without doubt that Dowell is ahead of him in just about every category in terms of experience, but one key category is how impressed the manager is. Dowell has been allowed to leave on loan, while Broached has, (for the moment at least) been kept in the team. His challenge is to remain in the team for as long as he can into pre-season. The Vlasic comparison is a little off, because we received the best part of £15 million quid for a player who didn't want to be here. Both of those things are untrue of Broadhead so it is not a like for like comparison is it?

 

[catcherintherye]

I think the big difference is that Dowell was looking good against some team from Africa wasn't he, whilst Broadhead has done it against a decent European side, which suggests he may be more ready. (Fwiw, I've still got my fingers crossed that Dowell can come good).

Yes this is a valid point. The season before I remember Dowell looked good in Holland too. I think the key difference is though, Dowell was playing under a first team manager who didn't rate him and was a little nervous around young players more generally. There is the potential for both of this things to be different with Silva.

 

[catcherintherye]

Needs a good loan, don't think he's anywhere near good enough for our first team, we're being linked with players like malcolm, that's the standard we need in attack. Broadhead is league one level at best. I know that's blunt, but it's the truth. All for promoting youngsters, but look at Kenny for example and his prestige in youth football, the step up to prem is massive.

Respectfully mate, I think a loan is the absolute last thing he needs. He is in and around the first team squad, what he needs to do is cement himself there. If he ends up on loan it will be a signifier he is not good enough. Keep yourself as close to the managers attention as possible.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with all of what you are saying. When I try to evaluate younger players I make a similar judgement call. You look at where they are compared to their peers. For that reason I have always poured cold water on Broadhead, even as an under 18 when he scored a lot of goals.

I am not sure the final step is quite as mechanical as that though. What you are basically saying is the judgement of one person can trump all the other people along the process.

It's without doubt that Dowell is ahead of him in just about every category in terms of experience, but one key category is how impressed the manager is. Dowell has been allowed to leave on loan, while Broached has, (for the moment at least) been kept in the team. His challenge is to remain in the team for as long as he can into pre-season. The Vlasic comparison is a little off, because we received the best part of £15 million quid for a player who didn't want to be here. Both of those things are untrue of Broadhead so it is not a like for like comparison is it?

With Vlasic though, there were teams in for him because he'd mixed it against the likes of Real Madrid in a competitive game. If Broadhead was sold tomorrow, he'd get a fraction of what we got for Vlasic.

 

[catcherintherye]

With Vlasic though, there were teams in for him because he'd mixed it against the likes of Real Madrid in a competitive game. If Broadhead was sold tomorrow, he'd get a fraction of what we got for Vlasic.

No I agree which was kind of my point. The argument for me isn't that Broadhead is better than Vlasic (I was a big fan of Vlasic) or that Vlasic wasn't good enough for Everton. I believe he was, but was unprepared to fight his way into the team, he wanted regular minutes. When the club could get a fee of 15 million for him it was then an easy decision.

Broached will be happier to fight for him place and be a sub at times if needs be, and nobody is paying 15 million for him (or anything close) which means we are far less likely to sell him.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

I’m not sure focussing on winning the Prem2 should always be the main objective of it forces younger players into a system and not allow them to develop as individuals with something different about themselves.

 

[Philw]

Just to repeat, Broadhead is the same age and plays in a similar'ish position to both Vlasic and Lookman, both of whom have shown waaay more than him in their careers to date and yet are heading out the door because they were deemed not good enough. There's a whole lot being placed on a single performance in a friendly.

All they've shown is that they're apparently not good enough for us. I don't know why Broadhead hasn't been on loan, but both of those were brought in as hot prospects from outside they club. Those club's own Barkley if you like, and neither seem to have turned into the 'diamond' we wanted them to be. This doesn't mean Broadhead can't be another Osman though. Most players don't peak until they're 4/5 years older than he is now, there's still time, and Brands/Silva must see something in there that suggests he could become a good player in the future. He might not turn into a world beater, but we need good squad players, and I'd rather they came form our youth system than were bought in at 10m a go.

 

[Sy-]

All they've shown is that they're apparently not good enough for us. I don't know why Broadhead hasn't been on loan, but both of those were brought in as hot prospects from outside they club. Those club's own Barkley if you like, and neither seem to have turned into the 'diamond' we wanted them to be. This doesn't mean Broadhead can't be another Osman though. Most players don't peak until they're 4/5 years older than he is now, there's still time, and Brands/Silva must see something in there that suggests he could become a good player in the future. He might not turn into a world beater, but we need good squad players, and I'd rather they came form our youth system than were bought in at 10m a go.

Yep, Broadhead has shown some glimpses of quality, but then Lookman was very exciting to watch in patches. However when Lookman was being observed daily by experts, he was apparently missing whatever was required to get the nod ahead of a player literally coasting to the end of his career in the most unspectacular fashion.

Conversely I've seen nothing remotely promising in Hornby, but we don't know or see what the coaches do on a daily basis.

 

[BlueToff]

He runs like Bilyaletdinov.

 

[BlueToff]

Just not sure he's got it, whatever 'it' is. Gets into some really good positions but doesn't seem to have any composure.

He's the same age as Richarlison and DCL, and he's miles off both of them.

Maybe I'm being harsh. He's definitely got a lot of good attributes - pace, skilful. But seems to lack something that could take him up a level.

 

[toffeejack]

Respectfully mate, I think a loan is the absolute last thing he needs. He is in and around the first team squad, what he needs to do is cement himself there. If he ends up on loan it will be a signifier he is not good enough. Keep yourself as close to the managers attention as possible.

i just don't think he'll be around the first team once we've done our transfer business. If we're happy to let players the calibre of vlasic and lookman go, i just don't see how Broadhead has a chance.

 

[blueblue]

Just not sure he's got it, whatever 'it' is. Gets into some really good positions but doesn't seem to have any composure.

He's the same age as Richarlison and DCL, and he's miles off both of them.

Maybe I'm being harsh. He's definitely got a lot of good attributes - pace, skilful. But seems to lack something that could take him up a level.

He is a full year younger than Richarlison but you are right in that he is nowhere near the same level.
However, I would say that comparing any young player to Richarlison is harsh.
A season with the first team would be ideal for Broadhead and if he is good enough then chances will come for him .

 

[catcherintherye]

i just don't think he'll be around the first team once we've done our transfer business. If we're happy to let players the calibre of vlasic and lookman go, i just don't see how Broadhead has a chance.

Well neither Lookman or Vlasic wanted to stay. I'm not sure it's that they weren't deemed good enough.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Players develop at different stages. I'm not for one second saying Broadhead will make by the way, I just don't like writing players off until it's blatantly obvious they've reached their limit. Osman was at derby on loan at 22/23 year old, he made it, it doesn't always have to be so set in stone.

Osman was in an era when we had no money, so was easier to get a chance as a young player. And look how many teenagers we played from the mid 90’s to the mid 2000’s.

Also he had an horrendous injury as a young player I’m sure he would have got a chance earlier but for that injury.

 

[zzr45]

Osman was in an era when we had no money, so was easier to get a chance as a young player. And look how many teenagers we played from the mid 90’s to the mid 2000’s.

Also he had an horrendous injury as a young player I’m sure he would have got a chance earlier but for that injury.

Osman had already been on loan at Carlisle. Arguably reserve team football was a bit more challenging too compared to u23 football.