MOYES, YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER

[davek]

Perfect test of character and devotion to his new position - "go and get one of your former players that'd fit in here, lets see how loyal you are". Its cut throat, its nasty - its business.

The final fee and the structure of the payments for the Rooney deal I feel are much worse than any deal we are looking at having to make this summer - would it have been that way if Moyes had been a bit nicer to "our Wayne" or has it all been forgotten? Or has Rooney taken the brunt of our wrath for jumping into bed with Stretford and making silly allegations about press leaks.

With the way the support has treated servants like Hibbert and Osman over the seasons it all seems very holier than thou. Rank hypocrisy, but its alright if we are picking up players cheap from a club on its backside like Rangers, or we gazump a deal between Millwall and Wigan because Wigans chairman is a principaled nutter.

Them that have been sharpening their axes over years for Moyes have their opportunity to go for him, and lie about their reasons. The kinds of behaviour we rightly ridicule them at Klanfield for.

Not guilty. I said it at the time we did it too.

 

[paulbefc]

So you don't think if Roberto really wanted Kone and told him so then Bill went and put a 46m bid in for him Roberto would say 'hang on chops' he's not worth that.

I don't think that's quite the same tbh.

 

[davek]

All he owed us as manager was to see his contract out and delivering satisfactory performance in the league. Why would he sign a new contract if he knew there was a chance he was leaving? As he has stated, he wasn't sure he wanted to stay and if an offer like United came in, he'd be off. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You cant have it both ways: he was either a 'dignified' man who served us loyally, or he was the hard-nosed operator who kept his club in the dark about going to United and strung us all out until Ferguson gave him the nod. Which is it, because the two characteristics dont sit easily with each other.

As for knowing he was leaving and running his contract down, when he accepted the offer (no one can act like they have the slightest clue when that was) we all saw how much everything in the media was about Moyes in those last two games, if that had gone on for weeks or months it may have hurt the team's form. I'm sure he didn't want any distractions for the players and staff and so said "I'll leave it until the end of the season." It's clear what he was doing. He was honouring his contract and delivering the best performance he could as that is what he owed us. And he did, we finished the season strongly.

Your argument seems to be here that the constant uncertainty over whether he was staying or going had a positive effect on the team?

I don't remember many quotes like this and I doubt they're as bad as you're making out. In any case, he'd be entirely correct. We were utter, utter sh*te when he took over.

We were a car crash under Smith, but Moyes wasn't being specific about it was it really? His words were always to the effect that Everton have always struggled. Well we picked up a trophy seven years before he arrived and when he left 11 yars later it was still the last one we won. I find that 'utter sh*te' to be honest.

I'm pretty sure the financial side of transfer negotiations is not one that managers get particularly involved in. It's not what they're paid to do. He may well think Baines is valued much higher than £12m, but United have to get the best deal they can. They wouldn't go straight in at Moyes' evaluation. No way. Moyes is on the buyer's side anyway now, so his valuation has nothing to do with anything. All that matters is how much Everton value him at. If Bill fancies cashing in at less than Moyes' valuation now he's gone, United would be fools not to go lower. It's the same principle as him not signing a new contract. He could be screwing United out of millions if he helped little old Everton out with a massive bid.

For someone who asks for 'shreds of evidence' supporting the case Moyes made the bid, you're pretty fast and loose with the claims he didn't. Why on earth d you think Moyes wouldn't be central to this whole bidding process? He's valued players before at Everton - this we know. He'd walk away from a player costing what he thought too much and tell any predator that they were being 'ridiculous' to come in cheap for one of ours. Do you think he turned to Elstone to do all that for him or BK? You are being way too generous in your view this feller has had little hands on activity with this low bid for his ex-player.

And why d'you keep saying 'little old Everton' and 'plucky little Everton'? It sounds like you believe we cant ask for a decent price for our best player and the best LB in Britain without sounding sorry for ourselves...which is ridiculous.

 

[Deloodid]

Moyes was out of order when he didnt sign his contract, and left to one of the richest clubs in the world for nothin. if that was a player, he would be labelled JUDAS.

 

[Joey66]

BK is at fault for his lovey dovie relationship with DM too many times he let him get out of signing his contract -in early Jan DM & BK knew the move was on to MAN U!

 

[Pat's Van]

So you don't think if Roberto really wanted Kone and told him so then Bill went and put a 46m bid in for him Roberto would say 'hang on chops' he's not worth that.

I'd fkn love that, if Roberto decides to refer to his new boss as "chops" (especially in public) then he's deffo the manager for me

 

[Blue 1]

£12m is a derisory bid for the best left back in Europe. If it was Moyes' work then he's a dick.

 

[EvertruvianMan]

Moyes was out of order when he didnt sign his contract, and left to one of the richest clubs in the world for nothin. if that was a player, he would be labelled JUDAS.

Erm, we got a fee for Judas Barmby.
Players out on a Bosman usually reject a contract and go, but the club and fans are usually well aware of this - case in point - Heitinga, sell me now or I walk in 12 months.
So far as Moyes goes, perhaps he got tired of operating on a miniscule budget and being beaten to good players because of those restraints. The support is tired of the club being so poor, imagine how the head man feels having to fight through it too. That we are a step up from some sides is a damning indictment of the state of British football and how the league is run.

 

[hktoffee]

BK is at fault for his lovey dovie relationship with DM too many times he let him get out of signing his contract -in early Jan DM & BK knew the move was on to MAN U!

BK was too kind to Moyes. Should have given him two options. Sign a new deal or sack him!

 

[Deloodid]

BK was too kind to Moyes. Should have given him two options. Sign a new deal or sack him!

You can't sack a manager who his having a good season. thats just cutting of your nose to spite ya face.

 

[Goat]

BK was too kind to Moyes. Should have given him two options. Sign a new deal or sack him!

Why sack him?

Im not sure I get your point.

 

[Deloodid]

Im glad i wasnt there for the West Ham Moyes love in. cos id feel a c*ck now. i expect him to come in for our players, but not before July 1st while hes getting paid by us.

 

[Goat]

I would rather he came today, than the 31st August.

He could have done that, been a pyar cnut, he knows how much we will sell Baines for, he could have made the bid at 23.57 31st August.

 

[paulbefc]

You cant have it both ways: he was either a 'dignified' man who served us loyally, or he was the hard-nosed operator who kept his club in the dark about going to United and strung us all out until Ferguson gave him the nod. Which is it, because the two characteristics dont sit easily with each other.

I've just said if he'd told everyone about United when it happened the pressure on the team to succeed would have been ramped up and the players would have known they wouldn't be playing for him next season which would have undermined his authority. Not to mention Sir Alex's, who still had a title to win ffs. Every interview question and all focus would be on next season when the one in hand hadn't even finished. If you can't see how that wouldn't have negative effects, I'm done. Also, he didn't keep us in the dark. He said we'd know at the end of the season. When his job was done. Sure, we didn't know he'd sign, but if he said he was signing, he'd have been lying. It's the only thing he could have done without blowing the whole thing wide open and risking both clubs' seasons.

Your argument seems to be here that the constant uncertainty over whether he was staying or going had a positive effect on the team?

I'm surprised you came to that conclusion. As stated above it was the best approach because it didn't undermine his authority and didn't mean he was making us think he would sign. If you think he should have come out and said he was off to United in the business end of a season, just for our peace of mind, you're being daft.

We were a car crash under Smith, but Moyes wasn't being specific about it was it really? His words were always to the effect that Everton have always struggled. Well we picked up a trophy seven years before he arrived and when he left 11 yars later it was still the last one we won. I find that 'utter sh*te' to be honest.

Moyes brought the club to the top 6/7 in his first 14 months at the club and kept it there for the best part of a decade with a tiny budget. He doesn't have to act like that wasn't a great achievement because you don't like him.

For someone who asks for 'shreds of evidence' supporting the case Moyes made the bid, you're pretty fast and loose with the claims he didn't. Why on earth d you think Moyes wouldn't be central to this whole bidding process? He's valued players before at Everton - this we know. He'd walk away from a player costing what he thought too much and tell any predator that they were being 'ridiculous' to come in cheap for one of ours. Do you think he turned to Elstone to do all that for him or BK? You are being way too generous in your view this feller has had little hands on activity with this low bid for his ex-player.

Again, he's not deciding the price any more. Bill is. His valuation doesn't matter. His club is looking to get the best deal possible. Obviously. Sure, £12m may be a ridiculous offer, but hey, Bill's a ridiculous chairman and one last time: Moyes isn't the one who decided player values here any more. He may have a view over negotiations but don't you think Manchester United may be able to employ people who could possibly hash out a deal better than David Moyes?

And why d'you keep saying 'little old Everton' and 'plucky little Everton'? It sounds like you believe we cant ask for a decent price for our best player and the best LB in Britain without sounding sorry for ourselves...which is ridiculous.

Because we're effectively asking MANCHESTER UNITED'S MANAGER to bid higher than he needs to for our player just because he used to manage our team. If we do that we live right up to those tags. 100%. It's pathetic.

 

[hktoffee]

Why sack him?

Im not sure I get your point.

In January. If he was not prepared to stay...maybe someone shall be given a chance to take over the team a bit earlier.

It turned out we had done just ok after January (we were 6th but despite our rare good start, Everton haven't booked a place in Euro).