Moyes Potential Replacement

[Jags..class]

Can you really use net spend in comparison of the two with all the different variables involved if your going to compare anything it should be there transfers alone in the four years that Martinez has spent in the leauge.

what do you mean mate?

 

[D410]

I just recken Martinez should be judge on the resources he had at the Club, doesn't matter if he left, he still laid the foundations at Swansea. He had less money then Moyes, he not my first choice either but he better then an internal appointment and he also only young and apt of experience.

Talking bollocks and being positive all the time might wash at Wigan..it wont at Everton.

 

[caught]

It's a big thread and a lot of us are just taking some of the stuff we've been over a lot already in the past 20k odd posts as read. Earlier in the thread I may have given some detailed reasons; lately I have moved onto "I don't want a relegated manager" as a "shorthand" of sorts.

My point is that depending on which post of mine you read you might assume that is the only reason I have. However I have other posts which go into a little more detail. I don't think it's reasonable to assume just because someone only mentioned relegation that its their only criteria. They may have mentioned a lot more details a week or so ago and just don't feel like repeating it all in every single post. They may have said "same for me" to someone else's list of reasons and that's their opinion but they haven't "officially" listed it out in their own post.

I have a fairly good handle on where a lot of posters stand and they don't need to reiterate all of their old points in every single post.

FWIW I'd agree that relegation alone maybe isn't enough -- although if you were going to pick one reason alone it is fairly compelling.

TBF I did make that point myself weeks ago but it's a bit of a conversation cul-de-sac. We have no way of knowing Neville or Stubbs isn't the best appointment either. Mourinho could come here and fail. We are just making (perhaps poorly) educated guesses based on the best available information.

I could respond to almost every single post in this thread with "there is no way of knowing for sure" but that's not really going to get us anywhere productive.

Yeah, I've read the thread. I'm afraid you were only assuming that I was making assumptions. While it's not debatable that many here have focussed on the relegation exclusively (it's a fact), pointing out some managers that have succeeded after a relegation doesn't imply an assumption that others don't have a variety of reservations or that I'm lumping everyone into a limited viewpoint, as I (again) stated in the part of my post you decided not to quote.

I don't think there's anything here that's particularly productive, but cherry-picking certain bits of a statement to misinterpret and argue against is probably as unproductive as anything. It also means you're not really having a discussion with anyone other than yourself.

Anyway on topic: I'm neither an apologist nor a fan of Martinez. I'd take Periera if I could. He's used to winning, and to go two years with only one league defeat is impressive in any league. While Porto fans seem unimpressed, everything I've read indicates a manager who has an excellent approach to the game and the job. I just don't see it happening.

 

[hktoffee]

Why haven't we been able to take the next step up and get CL football, its it down to Moyes or the board for not investing. The same is for Martinez who had to work under a tight budget
To quickly summarize the activity of the three, Paul Jewell entered the Premier League with a small squad on low wages. He was able to invest substantially in both transfer fees and wages. Steve Bruce, while given a larger net spend, had liberty to increase the wage bill. Roberto Martinez has presided over the lowest net spend as well as a shrinking wage budget while also expanding the squad

I agree the Everton bit.

Yes and I do agree a tight budget may cost them to relegate BUT I think it was mainly down to his tactics. I can't believe he kept sticking with 3-4-3 all the time even though he knew he had a sh1te defence. I also think his defence was not organized at all. It seemed like no one had actually given them instruction.

 

[willo30]

..interesting comparison with Vitor. Sacked from the 3rd tier of Portugese football with SC Espinho, eventually got a job in the 2nd tier with CD Santa Clara but having failed to get them into the top flight he packed a Managers job in to become 2nd string at Porto where he inherited a really good side from AVB.

This is interesting though. This proves that he can take over a good team and make them better which is surely what we are looking for. Maybe he is not quite so good when he has to build a team completely.

As for Martinez I believe he has to earn the right again to manage a top 6 team. I was undecided on him until the relegation but I am now firmly against him. We as a club should never be looking to employ a manager who has just taken a team down under any circumstances.

For me it has to be recent records we have to look at which puts Vitor out in front. If we are looking at Martinez we might as well look at Owen Coyle, Stuart Pearce and similar as these where highly thought of at some point.

 

[Denis Stracqualursi]

Just been looking at the poll, do people seriously think someone from within the club is a good idea?

 

[Eggs]

...the thread is turning into Martinez v Periera but it will be just like Everton to announce somebody from left field and we will all have sore fingers for nothing.

 

[Jags..class]

I agree the Everton bit.

Yes and I do agree a tight budget may cost them to relegate BUT I think it was mainly down to his tactics. I can't believe he kept sticking with 3-4-3 all the time even though he knew he had a sh1te defence. I also think his defence was not organized at all. It seemed like no one had actually given them instruction.

That 3-4-3 kept them up last season, this season they got more points and still went down, they had defensive injuries as well. I'm sure he played a different formation at Swansea so he can adapt with different formations. Its the board fault they are down by not investing in the team.

 

[nigelcoyb]

Vitor is "forum popular" because he's completely unknown by 99% but a quick google and he's the kid - apparently plays decent footy has won stuff and is the acceptable way of saying not another decade like the last .... end of!

Except closer inspection reveals a few failures on the CV not a straight line graph at all and the accusation he inherited AVB's work and most startling of all has no experience of English football at any level.

He's become fashionable like those kids who wear their kex round their thighs - extraordinary because the obvious downsides are ignored by a certain type of leather.

Now in fairness he might be the dogs but this level of hysteria - just to ignore the good things Martinez did at Swansea and Wigan (oh yeh he did ..... find out about what he had to do to the wagebill before saying he was always in a relegation fight) - sheeple

 

[maddison]

Not really mate, I don't trust the fans to choose, for example a few on here use to say that Moyes couldn't get a better job then us and we could do better then Moyes.

In an ideal world I don't think we'd be taking any of the people being considered for the job

 

[Kev50]

Talking bollocks and being positive all the time might wash at Wigan..it wont at Everton.

You seem to get by

 

[Shibbywiggles]

...the thread is turning into Martinez v Periera but it will be just like Everton to announce somebody from left field and we will all have sore fingers for nothing.

Klopp in!!!

 

[noharmdone]

I'm more confident than ever it's Martinez.

 

[willo30]

Are we actually interested in Martinez though.

This time last year Whelan couldn't keep his mouth shut about interest from others but nothing at the moment.

I wouldn't be surprised if we are not even in for him.

 

[Marky Andrews]

Porto website
Re: We will have new coach Vítor Pereira or continues?
« Reply # 1500 on: Today at 04:02 pm »
"The businessman Manuel Pellegrini confirmed today BALL ONLINE that the Chilean coach for 59 years in fact received an offer from FC Porto to guide the team next season, as BALL moved from London on Sunday. Yet Jesus Martínez assumed Dragons lost the race for Manchester City, which explains the silence of FC Porto on the subject, since the SAD there was no reaction to the news BALL, now fully confirmed. " The Bubble ... As the staff said here ... Now ABolha says JJ renewed by benfas ... and stand to be the biggest!