2017/18 Morgan Schneiderlin

[degsy]

It was a fantastic tackle that didn't warrant a free-kick, never mind a booking.

He was starting to find form in the last few games and he did an excellent job man-marking Silva out of the game on Monday.

Will be a big miss against Chelsea.

I know Reffs play catch up / compensation...red card one end usually means one the other, same with Pens
You, I hope, Know it.
How come a guy at the sharp end of the trade misses it

 

[BlueToff]

I know Reffs play catch up / compensation...red card one end usually means one the other, same with Pens
You, I hope, Know it.
How come a guy at the sharp end of the trade misses it

I did say in a follow-up post that it was reckless.

It doesn't mean it warranted a second booking. Madley had a shocker, but that shouldn't stop a player on a booking going in for a fair challenge and winning the ball cleanly to stop an attack that could very easily have led to a goal.

The issue I had with MS on Monday was the stupid tackle he did to get a yellow in the first place. That wasn't needed.

His second tackle was a very good one and one that shouldn't have been punished.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I did say in a follow-up post that it was reckless.

It doesn't mean it warranted a second booking. Madley had a shocker, but that shouldn't stop a player on a booking going in for a fair challenge and winning the ball cleanly to stop an attack that could very easily have led to a goal.

The issue I had with MS on Monday was the stupid tackle he did to get a yellow in the first place. That wasn't needed.

His second tackle was a very good one and one that shouldn't have been punished.

Problem is (and you're not alone in this, loads of people do it) is that you seem to be determining whether it was a good tackle or not based on your own personal opinion rather than how the ref has to decide : by the laws of the game.

And laws state :

A direct free kick is awarded when a player commits any of the following in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• Kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• Trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• Jumps at an opponent
• Charges an opponent
• Strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• Pushes an opponent
• Tackles an opponent

And that a yellow card is shown when :

A yellow card is shown by the referee to indicate that a player has been officially cautioned.[1]:38 The player's details are then recorded by the referee in a small notebook; hence a caution is also known as a "booking". A player who has been cautioned may continue playing in the game; however, a player who receives a second caution in a match is sent off (shown the yellow card again, and then a red card). Law 12 of the Laws of the Game (which are set by the International Football Association Board and used by FIFA) lists the types of offences and misconduct that may result in a caution. It also states that "only a player, substitute or substituted player" can be cautioned. A player is cautioned and shown a yellow card if he/she commits any of the following offences:

1. Unsporting behaviour
2. Dissent by word or action
3. Persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
4. Delaying the restart of play
5. Failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, throw-in or free kick
6. Entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee's permission
7. Deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee's permission

What constitutes cautionable unsporting behaviour is generally at the referee's discretion, though the Interpretation and Guidelines which accompany the Laws list a number of examples.[1]:123 These include simulation intended to deceive the referee, or attempting to score by handling the ball. Fouls which are committed recklessly or fouls which are committed with the intention of breaking up a promising attack are also considered unsporting behaviour and punishable with a yellow card. Fouls which are committed with excessive force, however, or which deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity for the player fouled (i.e. a professional foul), are punishable by a red card.

So when attempting to tackle Aguero, Schneiderlin played the ball from Aguero's right with his right foot, but his left foot caught Aguero's ankle and tripped him up. The referee then had to decide whether it was just a foul for tackling an opponent in a careless manner, or if it was a foul and a yellow for tackling an opponent in a reckless manner.

And going by how Schneiderlin lunged in and tripped a player on his right side with his trailing left leg it could easily be said to be reckless, thus the yellow card was correct, thus producing a red.

Obviously it's just easier for people to say the ref is crap because they didn't agree with the laws rather than accept the ref took action under the laws as they are written, which is his job.

You even admitted it was reckless so under the laws of the game it had to be a yellow card. Fair enough if you think the laws are wrong, but they are what they are and as per normal in these situations, winning the ball does not mean it's not a foul.

 

[BlueToff]

Problem is (and you're not alone in this, loads of people do it) is that you seem to be determining whether it was a good tackle or not based on your own personal opinion rather than how the ref has to decide : by the laws of the game.

And laws state :

A direct free kick is awarded when a player commits any of the following in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• Kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
• Trips or attempts to trip an opponent
• Jumps at an opponent
• Charges an opponent
• Strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
• Pushes an opponent
• Tackles an opponent

And that a yellow card is shown when :

A yellow card is shown by the referee to indicate that a player has been officially cautioned.[1]:38 The player's details are then recorded by the referee in a small notebook; hence a caution is also known as a "booking". A player who has been cautioned may continue playing in the game; however, a player who receives a second caution in a match is sent off (shown the yellow card again, and then a red card). Law 12 of the Laws of the Game (which are set by the International Football Association Board and used by FIFA) lists the types of offences and misconduct that may result in a caution. It also states that "only a player, substitute or substituted player" can be cautioned. A player is cautioned and shown a yellow card if he/she commits any of the following offences:

1. Unsporting behaviour
2. Dissent by word or action
3. Persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
4. Delaying the restart of play
5. Failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, throw-in or free kick
6. Entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee's permission
7. Deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee's permission

What constitutes cautionable unsporting behaviour is generally at the referee's discretion, though the Interpretation and Guidelines which accompany the Laws list a number of examples.[1]:123 These include simulation intended to deceive the referee, or attempting to score by handling the ball. Fouls which are committed recklessly or fouls which are committed with the intention of breaking up a promising attack are also considered unsporting behaviour and punishable with a yellow card. Fouls which are committed with excessive force, however, or which deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity for the player fouled (i.e. a professional foul), are punishable by a red card.

So when attempting to tackle Aguero, Schneiderlin played the ball from Aguero's right with his right foot, but his left foot caught Aguero's ankle and tripped him up. The referee then had to decide whether it was just a foul for tackling an opponent in a careless manner, or if it was a foul and a yellow for tackling an opponent in a reckless manner.

And going by how Schneiderlin lunged in and tripped a player on his right side with his trailing left leg it could easily be said to be reckless, thus the yellow card was correct, thus producing a red.

Obviously it's just easier for people to say the ref is crap because they didn't agree with the laws rather than accept the ref took action under the laws as they are written, which is his job.

You even admitted it was reckless so under the laws of the game it had to be a yellow card. Fair enough if you think the laws are wrong, but they are what they are and as per normal in these situations, winning the ball does not mean it's not a foul.

Right, but a huge part of the ref's task is to interpret and apply those laws to certain situations - I.E. common sense.

It wasn't a 'reckless' challenge in that it was dangerous, or his feet were high.

It was reckless in the sense that he already had a booking. But that shouldn't stop a player making a clean challenge, which is what Schneiderlin did.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Right, but a huge part of the ref's task is to interpret and apply those laws to certain situations - I.E. common sense.

It wasn't a 'reckless' challenge in that it was dangerous, or his feet were high.

It was reckless in the sense that he already had a booking. But that shouldn't stop a player making a clean challenge, which is what Schneiderlin did.

Sorry mate but that's completely wrong.

Nowhere in those laws i posted does it mention "common sense", thats just a phrase used by fans to criticise referees. If you think the laws should be re-written to take common sense into account then thats fair enough. But in making that decision the ref had to determine whether in his opinion Schneiderlin breached the rules, there's no common sense involved.

Taking away the fact that he "won the ball" because that isn't mentioned in the laws that govern whether a foul has been committed or not, it's clear that he tripped Aguero when attempting to tackle him. That's a foul according to the laws whether you me or anyone else agrees.

Then the decision has to be made whether it was "careless", "Reckless", or "using excessive force". By default it was careless as it was a foul, whether it was reckless or not comes down to interpretation. It's between the 2 for me but the ref decided it was reckless thus a yellow. I'm not sure there's any particular definiton ref's use for reckless but it's probably the way he left his feet and lunged for the ball that made the ref decide it was reckless, even though the feet weren't particularly high or dangerous.

I'm just trying to explain why the ref gave the decision and how it fits in with the laws of the game. Whether you agree or disagree with the laws is a totally different argument.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

Right, but a huge part of the ref's task is to interpret and apply those laws to certain situations - I.E. common sense.

It wasn't a 'reckless' challenge in that it was dangerous, or his feet were high.

It was reckless in the sense that he already had a booking. But that shouldn't stop a player making a clean challenge, which is what Schneiderlin did.

It was a great tackle. But under the circumstances (the ref was obviously looking for an excuse to even the score), should Morgan have attempted that challenge? I knew the second it happened he was seeing red.

 

[Bluerover]

I did say in a follow-up post that it was reckless.

It doesn't mean it warranted a second booking. Madley had a shocker, but that shouldn't stop a player on a booking going in for a fair challenge and winning the ball cleanly to stop an attack that could very easily have led to a goal.

The issue I had with MS on Monday was the stupid tackle he did to get a yellow in the first place. That wasn't needed.

His second tackle was a very good one and one that shouldn't have been punished.

Tom Davies was heading for a second yellow the way he was careering around. I posted it at the time and RK was very wise to take him off when he did.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Least we can get a solid 90 minutes out of him tonight and he can have a fortnight off then.

 

[sageyefc]

Sheer class

 

[ijjysmith]

Sheer class

Was exceptional tonight.

 

[KaiserEFC]

The boy is back

 

[4737carlin]

Really going to miss him at Chelsea, with Klassen looking out as well we might have a problem in the middle on Sunday

 

[maccavennie]

Played a lot better tonight, just a lot quicker with everything he done.

 

[rochdaleblue]

Controlled the game.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Great player. Hopefully the rest is long term a plus and he's firing for a very busy September. We will be miss him hugely on Sunday.