2020/21 Moise Kean

[riddick]

They've got to show something though. The criticism isn't unjust.

With Tom Davies, we've invested a lot of time in him and the development isn't there. With Kean, alot of money and he's showing absolutely nothing to suggest he's worth the outlay.

It's perfectly reasonable to say we need to recoup something for the investment on both as soon as possible as we're not getting the return on the pitch.

There's a post from me when Kean first signed that said he'd get basically a free pass fro me for his first year, but it was on the proviso that we'd see something, anything to suggest there's a player there worth persisting in. But there's absolutely nothing.

I don't necessarily agree with "he's showing absolutely nothing". He started, what, 2 matches for us last year and both matches he absolutely looked like he could be a "special" signing. I will gladly acquiesce he is poor coming off the bench for whatever reason, I think it is him trying too much but whatever.

 

[BlueToff]

Totally agree give the lad time ,hes only young got to adapt to different country different league hes only a kid really. Time needed. People too hasty to right him off like Calvert.

Absolutely agree with the point @Tubey makes about him needing to show something, and the time is now for him to start that (or at least this season).

But the team is still getting used to playing with these new players, and we'll hopefully bring more in. If he's still here and the quality around him doesn't improve him then yes, we can maybe look to move him on. But he's got four years left and he's 20, it's not like he's 29 and only has 2 years left.

 

[Glasshalffull]

me spouting crap, pretty sure you're the one wanting rid of the kid because you perceive that he doesn't want to be here, and that's all it is, your perception of the situation because you know diddly squat about his feeling the same as the rest of us. I'll gladly jog on if you stop chatting wham mate.

I'd just like us to stop giving up on young players that we've invested a lot in.

People were gagging for something to moan about yesterday and they've chosen Kean, cause at 5-2 up with 2 mins left he tried a trick which didn't come off.

Obviously, I understand the frustration with him in regards to his general time here isn't about that. He has a lot to improve on. But we're a team which should be developing these players, especially if we have spent such time, money and effort to get them here, and we have one of the best managers going.

He's in his 2nd season, he's played about 30 games in total, most of them in a team which could hardly string three passes together.

Well, the fact that our midfield can't string passes together doesn't force him to lose the ball via some ridiculous trick, miscontrol the ball when receiving a routine pass, or generally try the clever low percentage option, with minimal chance of success. On the other hand, Gascoigne was a total moron, but yet had some value.

Jury still out, but judge dusting off his black cap.......

 

[Quadvod]

The rumour was Juve had asked Raiola if they could take him on loan for a season.

Weve countered that it would need to be a loan with an obligation to buy or a straight sale.

Unless youve seen anything else this rumour hasnt got any legs.



We paid £5-7mil up front with a total agreement at £22mil + £5mil in clauses.

Juventus tried everything to keep him a year ago and he refused so they had to sell him with only a year left.

Youre saying £27mil would be "stupid to refuse" and "No way Juventus are that soft to pay £27mil".

No matter what you think of the player, the fact is that Juventus are one of the biggest clubs in the world who want to bring back a 20 year old Italian international loved by the club and supporters alike.

The fact is that at £27mil (incl clauses) was the fee when he had 1 year on his contract. The fact is that we have him on a £50k a week deal and dont need to sell.

If Juventus want him and Ancelotti/Brands are open to it then we should be demanding either a swap deal (get a player + fudge FFP) or £40mil+

£30mil or less would be absolutely insanely bad business at the same level of daftness as signing Iwobi and Delph.



We dont know if he wants to be at the club? Him training hard before the season started seemed to show he wanted to prove himself...who knows.




Unless Ancelotti has spoken with Kean and told him hes going to mould him into a target man then ive no clue why hes been played there...likewise strange to play him on the right against WBA when he could have slotted in upfront.



Of all the players in world football you are posting about Josh King mate?

Bewildering.




Lets not jinx them lol



So we sell him to focus on "other areas to address" and then also need another centre forward to replace him.

How does that work?

If you could offer me a decent centre half with pace I’d swap him with Kean absolutely- I understand the shouts about his age but if he was Mike Kean from the youth team there’d be a big clamour for him to go out on loan and learn his trade. Doesn’t look like he has the ability to keep the ball under control to be a top player.

 

[neilsyd]

All of the excuses so far are based around a move to a new country, language barriers, settling in, he’s young, the system doesn’t suit him, he’s got two playing well in front of him, coming on as a sub doesn’t help, he’s been under different regimes, poor performing team last year.
And then there is usually a “raw ability, talent is there” quote to try and justify it.
The problem is, we don’t know if any of the excuses are the actual reason for him playing poorly or whether he is blessed with this talent that people go on about.
We can only go on what we see on the pitch and it would be nice to see comments on his ball control, his ability to go past players, his passing, even his shooting ability? His heading? His vision, the runs he makes? But no, because there is very little proof of any of these.
So let’s just stick with raw talent which doesn’t really mean anything apart from “he does the wrong thing a lot”

 

[Bluestar]

All of the excuses so far are based around a move to a new country, language barriers, settling in, he’s young, the system doesn’t suit him, he’s got two playing well in front of him, coming on as a sub doesn’t help, he’s been under different regimes, poor performing team last year.
And then there is usually a “raw ability, talent is there” quote to try and justify it.
The problem is, we don’t know if any of the excuses are the actual reason for him playing poorly or whether he is blessed with this talent that people go on about.
We can only go on what we see on the pitch and it would be nice to see comments on his ball control, his ability to go past players, his passing, even his shooting ability? His heading? His vision, the runs he makes? But no, because there is very little proof of any of these.
So let’s just stick with raw talent which doesn’t really mean anything apart from “he does the wrong thing a lot”

He performed in Italy. Sometimes a move just doesn’t work out for whatever reason.
Moving countries when young and struggling in a new coulture is a thing and a risk we have taken. Life issues outside work do affect performance.
Ive seen glimpses of a player, but not enough. He was an odd signing, and clearly part of a Brands plan to develop and trade up. It hasnt worked and it looks like he wants out. The best thing is to get the best deal for him so we can reinvest,or at least make money while he still has value in Italy.
We need to be more considered with this sort of purchase in future, he wasn’t really needed. Last summers recruitment was disastrous and did nothing to strengthen the squad. Punts on players like him need to be for lower In value So we don’t lose out if they don’t work out.

 

[Lloydystark]

One moment probably summed up where he is atm.

he stood on the spot and didn’t move when we won the pen. He was taking it. That’s what you want from a striker.

His actual penalty was an abomination though. And shows his immaturity. He needs to focus on the basics because, for all the flair he might think he has, he can’t function at a basic level in this league yet. He’s fair coat no knickers. He needs to work on his basics if he wants to be a top top player.

He looks like he ‘tries to hard’ when really we just want to see him do the basics (what DCL is doing) or chase down and work hard. I put it down to age and the fact he’s joined a new club at a very young age and wanting to impress too much

 

[Shibbywiggles]

He needs to be given this season at least before being written off. I think he showed far more in his cameos that he has the quality to make it than DCL did in his first year and now he’s two games and four goals into a new season because his manager has played to his strengths and showed him loads of faith by keeping him starting when he wasn’t scoring.
The last three games Kean started, he scored. You can write off the last game for being against lower league fodder and it being a pen but he was probably our best player against Bournemouth and Newcastle.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

He looks like he ‘tries to hard’ when really we just want to see him do the basics (what DCL is doing) or chase down and work hard. I put it down to age and the fact he’s joined a new club at a very young age and wanting to impress too much

I think he really wants to be loved. We made a big fuss about him when he joined, even put him on a banner commenting about his racism issues he suffered in Italy and Brands made a big fuss with his mum and stuff so I feel like he desperately wants to be our main man and feel that love again.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

Reading that there is an offer on the table for Juve to take him back, on loan, with an option to buy. We want that changed to an obligation to buy in the summer.
We bought him last year for £20m plus the add ons of £7m. If Juve want him back for what we paid then fair enough, even if the payment is delayed for a season, I would still say fair enough. But if they just want to loan him, they should jog on, we will need that fee to buy someone else before the window shuts

 

[BlueToff]

Well, the fact that our midfield can't string passes together doesn't force him to lose the ball via some ridiculous trick, miscontrol the ball when receiving a routine pass, or generally try the clever low percentage option, with minimal chance of success. On the other hand, Gascoigne was a total moron, but yet had some value.

Jury still out, but judge dusting off his black cap.......

Of course it doesn't. He has a lot of things to improve on.

But we're a team that are growing and developing. To get where we want to be in a sustainable manner, we need to be sticking with players like Kean, imo, if we have them, until it is no longer feasible or sensible.

We wouldn't make a profit on him now, but he has four years left on his deal. He is 20. A full Italy international with room to grow, lots of room, but I think it's clear there is talent there, even if it does need a lot of nurturing (which we have the right manager and, now I think, players for).

We pulled off a coup getting him. Juve didn't want to sell him. We worked hard to get the right fee and to sell the club to him - one of Europe's top prospects.

What message does it send out to other potential 'top' players that we may be able to get (because as we know we can't get the top players in that 24-27 age bracket yet) if we just give up on a player like Kean after a year? Would that in any way help entice them to want to come to us?

 

[BlueToff]

He performed in Italy. Sometimes a move just doesn’t work out for whatever reason.
Moving countries when young and struggling in a new coulture is a thing and a risk we have taken. Life issues outside work do affect performance.
Ive seen glimpses of a player, but not enough. He was an odd signing, and clearly part of a Brands plan to develop and trade up. It hasnt worked and it looks like he wants out. The best thing is to get the best deal for him so we can reinvest,or at least make money while he still has value in Italy.
We need to be more considered with this sort of purchase in future, he wasn’t really needed. Last summers recruitment was disastrous and did nothing to strengthen the squad. Punts on players like him need to be for lower In value So we don’t lose out if they don’t work out.

Well, it didn't work last year, but nothing really did.

There's no evidence he actually wants out. No noises from his camp, nothing. It's all just press talk about Juve wanting to loan him.

 

[Glasshalffull]

Of course it doesn't. He has a lot of things to improve on.

But we're a team that are growing and developing. To get where we want to be in a sustainable manner, we need to be sticking with players like Kean, imo, if we have them, until it is no longer feasible or sensible.

We wouldn't make a profit on him now, but he has four years left on his deal. He is 20. A full Italy international with room to grow, lots of room, but I think it's clear there is talent there, even if it does need a lot of nurturing (which we have the right manager and, now I think, players for).

We pulled off a coup getting him. Juve didn't want to sell him. We worked hard to get the right fee and to sell the club to him - one of Europe's top prospects.

What message does it send out to other potential 'top' players that we may be able to get (because as we know we can't get the top players in that 24-27 age bracket yet) if we just give up on a player like Kean after a year? Would that in any way help entice them to want to come to us?

Well maybe it's like leaving Goodison on 90 minutes, quite a few years ago, when 1-3 down to Man U, only to tell from the roars that we drew 3-3 by the end. On the other hand, maybe its like turning down a seat on a Titanic lifeboat because you think everything will soon be alright. I genuinely, genuinely, don't know.

 

[Bluestar]

Well, it didn't work last year, but nothing really did.

There's no evidence he actually wants out. No noises from his camp, nothing. It's all just press talk about Juve wanting to loan him.

It was an odd signing because we reallly needed more experience up front Last season. Instead we bought potential for a lot of money and over the season we got very little return.
As a result, it’s make or break this season, or we need get what we can right now.
It just seemed a huge amount to splash when we had other areas to strengthen, eg CB.

 

[matty1878]

Well, it didn't work last year, but nothing really did.

There's no evidence he actually wants out. No noises from his camp, nothing. It's all just press talk about Juve wanting to loan him.

this. But no all the he’s crap sell him guys don’t agree lol