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I think it is ability. It's summed up in the words you used I think, Jagielka and Keane were/are 'solid' PL players. They're above average (I'd say Jagielka was at the very top of the above average bracket, Keane a bit lower) but they're not 'great' PL players. Because they're not great PL players, they're not great international players either. Keane will be fine for England in the main, but he'll get found out against good sides - he certainly won't be alone in that - just like he can do for us.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Surely that is enough, how many touches should a player have to make an assist?
On another note, yes Keane does need to pay attention to errors to eradicate that aspect of poor judgement. What other errors did he make? As regards the Kosovo game a pundit in the Mail today IMO quite rightly laid the blame at Barkley. He was in the open, unmarked yet passes back!!!!!!!!!!, it would have been easier to turn and get an attack going with a forward pass so also quite rightly Barkley should look at his errors.
A little statistic of the game the most forward passes made were Maguire 34 and Keane 29, yes Keane so much of his criticism is unjustified IMO.
DualityNSNO
How much for the pair?
Unless he plays keepy-uppy and then bicycle overhead kicks it to someone - it doesn't count and he's not good enough.
evertonarntwe
Player Valuation: £35m
enough? he's about 6 foot 4 lad, he won a header that led to a goal, he deserves absolutely no credit for that "assist" he should be winning headers at his height
secondly I don't disagree barkley shouldn't have passed back, but it's still keanes awful pass that put the Kosovo lad in
who cares about forward passes from a defender, England scored nearly all ( if not all ) theirs goals from counter attacking anyway.
you need to be able to accept criticism for keane when its deserved, he won't have done himself any favours with that performance for the next international break
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Well friend, beg to differ, Barkley put Keane in an awkward situation, forward bearing down on and yes should have hoofed the ball forward ( I did say that in a previous post) but what other errors did he make? As for his assist, who else was there coming in to head the ball, if he had not then no equaliser.
evertonarntwe
Player Valuation: £35m
they are both to blame, but more so keane, barkleys pass found and England player, keanes didn't. it's that simple
I will not give someone credit for winning a header like that, it just bounced off his head, he does it 3 times a game for us and it sails into the street end with his 50p head
Quick little pointless strawpoll, rate these CB pairings in order :
VVD/Gomez
Laporte/Stones
Toby/Jan
Mina/Keane
Christensen/Rudiger
Maguire/Lindelof
Luiz/Sokratis
Thats my order.
VVD/Gomez
Laporte/Stones
Toby/Jan
Mina/Keane
Christensen/Rudiger
Maguire/Lindelof
Luiz/Sokratis
Thats my order.
evertonarntwe
Player Valuation: £35m
rudiger is better than most on that list and Christensen is very good aswell, they are better than our current 2 easily
evertonarntwe
Player Valuation: £35m
yer spurs have 3 top CB's
united and us are pretty close as well
I'd have Maguire over keane ( although I don't think either of them are brilliant )
Mina I think is top class but has hardly played a big run of games and lindelof actually improved a lot last year
we have a better defence than arsenal though, that's a dead cert
VVD/Gomez
Toby/Jan
Laporte/Stones
Christensen/Rudiger
Mina/Keane
Maguire/Lindelof
Luiz/Sokratis
Doh, yeah I forgot about Sanchez at Spurs, so they are defo 2nd.
London cabbies turn quicker than him
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Disagree, Barkley more so he had attacking options.If you are a cm then you should be looking to get attacks going. Notice you have not pointed out more Keane errors. Give him a break ffs.
As for Barkley, he got well with us from his injury but as soon as well beat to London and we got sod all in transfer fee, the rat.
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