Current Affairs Met Police

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tsubaki said:
That is exactly the point though - for the calls that this policy relates to (and its all health / concern for safety calls, not just mental health) cops have very little actual power to do anything, often little or no training to do it and are not paid to do it anyway.

If someone is in mental health crisis outside where they pose a threat to themselves or others they have a legal power to do something (s136 of the Mental Health Act), and if they think someone is inside an address and needs urgent help they can force entry to save them (under s17 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act) but there is pretty much no legal framework to support them doing much beyond that. What this policy purports to do is to stop police attending calls where Parliament has not given them any authority to do anything.

Nearly everyone involved in the debate (here and in the US) agrees that cops should not be the first point of contact for people in mental health crisis, specifically because of what can happen when they try to deal with people in crisis. Yet somehow we have managed to get into a position where stopping them from doing what they should never have been doing in the first place is going to do damage to mental health provision in the NHS?
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tsubaki said:
I think you've completely misunderstood this - this is about police attending far fewer of these calls, not more.

Police are only going to attend when there is a serious risk of harm to the person in crisis or other people. The rest of the time it is going to be down to the people who are actually trained, paid and whose clear responsibility it is to deal with people in crisis.

That should mean that in the rare occasions when police have to attend, they do it in line with what they are trained and allowed to do legally. In terms of who makes the decision to attend or not, I think that is going to be the 999 call-taker in combination with a supervisor or some kind.
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tsubaki said:
No, I am saying that without any further legislative changes or funding this sort of thing should remain with the agencies whose job it is.

You are right that austerity had a big role to play in this, mind.
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There is no somehow no other service is funded 24 hrs or supported like the police in the community. Neither heath or social care professionals in mental health are supported by state structure or law and certainly not trained in dealing with very distressed and very often violent people in community settings. People will get hurt and almost certainly die. It's not good.

There is no community emergency mental health service there never has been.
 
Rita_Poon said:
The worst scum that stalks the land. Must've been jealous of the Aussies that killed the 95 year old...
www.bbc.co.uk

Met Police: Taser pointed at woman, 91

The police watchdog are investigating six officers' response to dispute between an elderly woman and her carer.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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One police officer suspended and 5 others on restricted duty... So six police officers needed to manage a distressed 91 year, between this and chasing kids on electric scooters, no wonder there is no policing the streets anymore. What a joke.
 
tsubaki said:
Police are only going to attend when there is a serious risk of harm to the person in crisis or other people. The rest of the time it is going to be down to the people who are actually trained, paid and whose clear responsibility it is to deal with people in crisis.
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This is not strictly what happens, my wife worked in the police control room for best part of 20 years, what would happen is the person would only have to say they feel suicidal or they’re going to kill them selves then they would be sent out even if the person is known to do this on a regular basis, the person would then be ask if they need to go to hospital and if they say yes then the police would have to stay with them until a trained person could arrive which could on many occasions be a couple of hours tying up police resources. when she retired the vast majority of calls where for mental health issues, and it was difficult to get social services to attend because they were under staffed and under resourced.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
There is no somehow no other service is funded 24 hrs or supported like the police in the community. Neither heath or social care professionals in mental health are supported by state structure or law and certainly not trained in dealing with very distressed and very often violent people in community settings. People will get hurt and almost certainly die. It's not good.

There is no community emergency mental health service there never has been.
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I think @tsubaki knows that, and so does the Commissioner of the MET et al. The point is that legislatively the police aren't commissioned to do so.

They have for a fair period now, but it has been to the detriment of them completing what the law sets out them to do. Hence, the move from the MET.

It's a pawn in a larger situation - either increase the funding to allow the police to do so, or allocate the funding elsewhere to allow someone else to do so.

The status quo is not beneficial for anyone.
 
PhilM said:
I think @tsubaki knows that, and so does the Commissioner of the MET et al. The point is that legislatively the police aren't commissioned to do so.

They have for a fair period now, but it has been to the detriment of them completing what the law sets out them to do. Hence, the move from the MET.

It's a pawn in a larger situation - either increase the funding to allow the police to do so, or allocate the funding elsewhere to allow someone else to do so.

The status quo is not beneficial for anyone.
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Been done to death now on radio all day and other police have now critiqued Met commissioner... The implication in posts quoted was clear.

Nobby Nobbs said:
This is not strictly what happens, my wife worked in the police control room for best part of 20 years, what would happen is the person would only have to say they feel suicidal or they’re going to kill them selves then they would be sent out even if the person is known to do this on a regular basis, the person would then be ask if they need to go to hospital and if they say yes then the police would have to stay with them until a trained person could arrive which could on many occasions be a couple of hours tying up police resources. when she retired the vast majority of calls where for mental health issues, and it was difficult to get social services to attend because they were under staffed and under resourced.
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Sounds about right.
 
Rita_Poon said:
There's quite some backlash on this, if his identity makes it out I'd think there might well be some more to come. A quite horrendous prick, and will hopefully be made one hell of an example of. Who prints that shirt up also.
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In fairness if he’s ordered it online from some random shop they probably won’t have understood the meaning behind it. Those words won’t have flagged a filter for offensive terms. I mean I really hope that is the case. Sadly he won’t be the only bellend that thinks that’s funny so who knows.
 
Wizard said:
In fairness if he’s ordered it online from some random shop they probably won’t have understood the meaning behind it. Those words won’t have flagged a filter for offensive terms. I mean I really hope that is the case. Sadly he won’t be the only bellend that thinks that’s funny so who knows.
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It isn't an original jibe, I've seen others, I suspect if he catches the flack due it might put a few others off in future.
 
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