Homepage Update: Mayor's Bramley Moore Dock Open Letter To Evertonians

[ijjysmith]

Ijjy you'd either be really crap in a revolution, or really useful to those in power

You should know by now I despise politics mate. I'm my own man.

 

[GwladysPhil]

I seriously hope that is not true. Athletics is not popular and we are never going to get the olympics. The conversion costs were estimated at £30m so we are not going to be hosting any diamond league events are even a future World Champioship so if the city misses out this time hard to believe they would build the stadium with athletics still being considered

Per terms and conditions associated with the stadium financing.

 

[ijjysmith]

Let's just wait and see

As if people will do that!!!

 

[GwladysPhil]

I'd agree with that certainly. I appreciate his correspondence with fans, but he uses very generic broad terms, such as "atmospheric" yet there is little meat to the bone. In defence of him it's not his job to give that, it's the clubs.

As usual we get radio silence for months on these things and people wonder why paranoia and concern fill the void. Somebody from the club needs to come out and address this. If Meis is working to a Roma style plan I don't think that fits with what fans want. If it has to be a Roma style stadium, as opposed to one we would like and the reason behind it is for the running track again this needs proper discussion. None of this may be true, but how can we know when we get no communication from the club?

All his stadiums have the same dingy, small plastic roof with a futuristic but hollow design.

I hope we get something different compared to what I've found in his portfolio.

 

[Brennan]

Anyway, apologies if this has already been suggested.

I think there's a way to install a temporary track without comprising on the design of the stands.

The image below is a diagram of the new WHL. The pitch is 105m long, and the distance from the top of the first stand at one side of the pitch, to the top of the first stand at the other side is approximately double this at 210m. The dimensions of an olympic running track are approximately 177x93m.

The issue with having a running track at a football stadium is always the length of the track rather than the width. Everybody seems to be assuming that you need to use retractable seating, but why not build the temporary track above the first tier of seating already in place ? This construction technique is already used all the time, see most new build Tesco superstores, the entire building is placed on stilts to allow parking underneath. At 210m from the top of the lower tier at one end to the other, there is more than enough room to fit a temporary running track if it were to be built at this elevation.

Building the track at the point where the first tier ends would reduce overall capacity by around 15,000. This would still leave at least 40,000 seats for the games itself, which is more than enough. The CWG doesn't require 60,000 seats, particularly if other track and field events are held at alternative sites.

Just an idea...

 

[Titus Bramble]

Anyway, apologies if this has already been suggested.

I think there's a way to install a temporary track without comprising on the design of the stands.

The image below is a diagram of the new WHL. The pitch is 105m long, and the distance from the top of the first stand at one side of the pitch, to the top of the first stand at the other side is approximately double this at 210m. The dimensions of an olympic running track are approximately 177x93m.

The issue with having a running track at a football stadium is always the length of the track rather than the width. Everybody seems to be assuming that you need to use retractable seating, but why not build the temporary track above the first tier of seating already in place ? This construction technique is already used all the time, see most new build Tesco superstores, the entire building is placed on stilts to allow parking underneath. At 210m from the top of the lower tier at one end to the other, there is more than enough room to fit a temporary running track if it were to be built at this elevation.

Building the track at the point where the first tier ends would reduce overall capacity by around 15,000. This would still leave at least 40,000 seats for the games itself, which is more than enough. The CWG doesn't require 60,000 seats, particularly if other track and field events are held at alternative sites.

Just an idea...

So what you're saying is if you sit down and think about things logically, there are solutions?

Shocked here

 

[roydo]

Even my non builder based mind can understand that. ^^^^

What it cant get is how that could be dropped in, used for a few weeks, then taken out, all during the closed season.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Anyway, apologies if this has already been suggested.

I think there's a way to install a temporary track without comprising on the design of the stands.

The image below is a diagram of the new WHL. The pitch is 105m long, and the distance from the top of the first stand at one side of the pitch, to the top of the first stand at the other side is approximately double this at 210m. The dimensions of an olympic running track are approximately 177x93m.

The issue with having a running track at a football stadium is always the length of the track rather than the width. Everybody seems to be assuming that you need to use retractable seating, but why not build the temporary track above the first tier of seating already in place ? This construction technique is already used all the time, see most new build Tesco superstores, the entire building is placed on stilts to allow parking underneath. At 210m from the top of the lower tier at one end to the other, there is more than enough room to fit a temporary running track if it were to be built at this elevation.

Building the track at the point where the first tier ends would reduce overall capacity by around 15,000. This would still leave at least 40,000 seats for the games itself, which is more than enough. The CWG doesn't require 60,000 seats, particularly if other track and field events are held at alternative sites.

Just an idea...

I thought spurs had a large single tierd stand behind one of the goals

 

[Jack1882]

I thought spurs had a large single tierd stand behind one of the goals

We do this is a cross section of the 2 longer stands, the single tier stand is the one missing from this image.

 

[Brennan]

I thought spurs had a large single tierd stand behind one of the goals

Probably right, thankfully I'm not Dan Meis !!

I think the logic still makes sense, though ?

 

[RobSpurs]

Yep, the diagram above is of the East and West stands, so the bottom measurement is more like 68m.

 

[Brennan]

We do this is a cross section of the 2 longer stands, the single tier stand is the one missing from this image.

Yep, the diagram above is of the East and West stands, so the bottom measurement is more like 68m.

Mugged me right off here you have.

Re-done with the correct image (I think ?).

It wouldn't actually work at WHL, but I suppose the point that it's feasible with it in mind from the get go remains the same.

 

[RobSpurs]

But your new diagram shows perfectly why it's the ends, not the sides, that cause the biggest problem. You could probably fit the width of a track over the new WHL lower tier, but the length doesn't fit. That's why simply dropping a track into a bowl, even if you lose the whole of the lower tier, would need some compromise.

I've been thinking out loud in the main stadium thread about the best solution, over two or three posts. This is the best solution I can come up with, and the compromise is you build one-end after the Commonwealth Games. But I think it's the least-bad compromise:

Meis said on Twitter the Etihad solution wasn't ideal as it affected schedules. Because of that people (including me) have assumed building one end after the Games is a no-go.

But, maybe the problem he sees isn't that they built one stand after the Games, but that they had to dig down to make it work for football, meaning it couldn't be used for football at all until a year after the Commonwealth Games.

Wouldn't it be possible for the club to move into a three quarters completed stadium in 2021 (still a larger capacity than Goodison), lay a platform track inside it after that season and remove it before the 2022/23 season (as promised in the Mayor's letter) and build the final stand during that season with the stadium still in use.

Also, dropping the track into a completed bowl would mean a very high platform would be needed if you're getting a steep rake, and it'd be some task to get that in and out in a pre-season. A lower platform, with one end of the stadium open and accessible would seem to be easier even than Hampden to convert (which took months).

Lastly, the news yesterday that the bid is proposing to host long jump and triple jump outside the stadium means the platform itself can be narrower, which in turn means the upper tiers could be closer and steeper.

So...by building one end afterwards and having the track "sticking out" you can move the platform along horizontally, meaning it doesn't need to be as high vertically and it's easier to get in and out. And losing long jump and triple jump means it doesn't need to be as wide. That solution would get around the geometry of fitting a track into an "ideal" football stadium, would mean Everton could move into the stadium before the Games and use it the season afterwards unlike City. And it's consistent with everything the Mayor and Meis has said.

 

[Brennan]

Moving into an unfinished stadium is unacceptable, imo. I'd rather stay at Goodison and allow the CWG to take place and then move in, if that's the option on the table.

 

[blue61]

Anyway, apologies if this has already been suggested.

I think there's a way to install a temporary track without comprising on the design of the stands.

The image below is a diagram of the new WHL. The pitch is 105m long, and the distance from the top of the first stand at one side of the pitch, to the top of the first stand at the other side is approximately double this at 210m. The dimensions of an olympic running track are approximately 177x93m.

The issue with having a running track at a football stadium is always the length of the track rather than the width. Everybody seems to be assuming that you need to use retractable seating, but why not build the temporary track above the first tier of seating already in place ? This construction technique is already used all the time, see most new build Tesco superstores, the entire building is placed on stilts to allow parking underneath. At 210m from the top of the lower tier at one end to the other, there is more than enough room to fit a temporary running track if it were to be built at this elevation.

Building the track at the point where the first tier ends would reduce overall capacity by around 15,000. This would still leave at least 40,000 seats for the games itself, which is more than enough. The CWG doesn't require 60,000 seats, particularly if other track and field events are held at alternative sites.

Just an idea...

Everton the innovators
First club to have a purpose built stadium
First club to have floodlights
First club with undersoil heating
First club to have a running track on stilts.
All hail the mighty Mosh.