Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[Tubey]

Looking at the performance last night in halves it was almost like two different teams.

the first half was what martinez has told the team to do all season league wise and unsuprisingly we were losing again with no shots on goal. A bit of specialness from our striker raised the crowd and on the wave of the fans we hit them hard at the end.

The seocnd half, i'm sorry but that looked so little a martinez team as i have ever seen this season. No retaining the ball until the last 10 minutes or so, looking to get the ball forward as much as we could, overlapping fullbacks, bite in the middle trying to win the ball back every time we lost it. As good as we have played all season performance wise.

Which brings me to the question.

If Martinez tells the players to do all of that, why do we not play like that in the league? It clearly works and it is the opposite of what teams have scouted against us for so why the hell if its all martinez's tactics do we not do it where we are getting closer to danger?

Yep exactly this.

We didn't pass around the back after the half hour mark - instead, we played a version of kick and run, playing off Lukaku, turning their midfield around, allowing us to press higher, letting the defensive midfield mop up if a counter was attempted, and dominated the game through direct football.

It's not the long term answer - no one style is - but surely it's the way forward while we try and get results in the league as it's playing to our obvious strengths, instead of sticking to a strategy which is resulting in low confidence slow football which is the easiest in the league to play against.

 

[Tubey]

Big improvement in the second half last night, we got the ball from back to front a lot quicker and played with much higher tempo on and off the ball. I'm delighted for lukaku, he's been making those runs down the channel all season but was never picked out as the player in possession was under orders to keep the ball.

Hopefully Martinez will wake up and smell the coffee, you can't play tikka takka with a bunch of average footballers. We need to work to our strengths, pace and power.

Naismith is the worst footballer I've seen play for a long time but the annoying runt keeps popping up with important goals! He's like an ex, I hate her most of the time but every once in a while she looks well

I think that's massively unfair on the squad we have. They are certainly capable and on paper we have one of the best six squads in the league - but you can't play the tippy tappy stuff with a side low on confidence, and you can't play it full stop with a low tempo.

 

[ijjysmith]

It was definitely that. Not naive at all. The players are human, they got angry, the rest followed. The timeline of the match is self-explanatory in that regard.

All Martinez has done post match is realised the obvious. If he had came out and said we were phenomenal in that first half hour after what followed he'd have to be sectioned. The difficulty for him now is the performance came from a style outside of the philosophy he said he'd never deviate from.

You cant say that for sure unless you know what Martinez was shouting during the game.

The crowd reaction definitely helped. That's obvious. But you have no idea what Martinez was saying. None of us do.

 

[By god I'm blue]

My major worry, is that it is very evident that he does not know how to get the best out of the players at his disposal. Something his predecessor was very good at.

We all agree that this on paper was the best squad we had started a season with in years. Everybody knows this now, it is no secret, the finger is pointing firmly in one direction and the pressure is on him and rightly so.

I personally have lost faith in him as I don't believe he knows what is best for the team and club anymore. By sticking to a one track mind philosophy he is turning himself from somebody who was much admired for his enthusiasm, passion and beliefs, into a mockery of his former self with his refusal to stop doing the same wrong thing over and over again.

 

[Tubey]

You cant say that for sure unless you know what Martinez was shouting during the game.

The crowd reaction definitely helped. That's obvious. But you have no idea what Martinez was saying. None of us do.

I don't need to, the first half hour spoke for itself, as does his oft repeated philosophy.

Martinez may have wanted the side to play quicker, but he wanted it done in a different way. There's next to no chance that performance with that style was under team orders.

It looks like he's cottoned on with the post match interview, so we'll have to wait and see, but the likelihood he was shouting "LADS, JIB ALL THAT IN, CLEAR YOUR LINES, PLAY OFF LUKAKU AND TURN THEM AROUND!" is non-existent.

 

[Connor]

Delighted for him last night. There were people there last night who had turned up to kick off at the first sight of danger. Fair enough we were useless for 30/35 minutes but once we got the ball down and played.

Also, how can anyone say the fans and crowd helped last night ? It was horrible and poisonous for a good portion of the first half. Nobody would want to play for the fans acting like that last night. The Gaffer got into them at half time and changed it. He's the reason. There was a swagger about them second half not seen since last season.

 

[Tubey]

Delighted for him last night. There were people there last night who had turned up to kick off at the first sight of danger. Fair enough we were useless for 30/35 minutes but once we got the ball down and played.

Also, how can anyone say the fans and crowd helped last night ? It was horrible and poisonous for a good portion of the first half. Nobody would want to play for the fans acting like that last night. The Gaffer got into them at half time and changed it. He's the reason. There was a swagger about them second half not seen since last season.

So much wrong in one post, quite impressive.

1. Nobody turned up wanting to kick off. We wanted Everton to play well. For the first half an hour, we didn't.
2. The players aren't idiots - they know why the fans are kicking off and will understand the passion.
3. We changed it well before half time. Martinez is not the reason for that switch - Lukaku hulking up was, along with the crowd forcing the issue.

 

[ijjysmith]

I don't need to, the first half hour spoke for itself, as does his oft repeated philosophy.

Martinez may have wanted the side to play quicker, but he wanted it done in a different way. There's next to no chance that performance with that style was under team orders.

It looks like he's cottoned on with the post match interview, so we'll have to wait and see, but the likelihood he was shouting "LADS, JIB ALL THAT IN, CLEAR YOUR LINES, PLAY OFF LUKAKU AND TURN THEM AROUND!" is non-existent.

But couldn't you also say the same for the players? Why haven't they jibbed it off already if it's sooooo obvious (which it is of course!).

I think you know me well enough that i'm no Martinez fanboy. I absolutley am not. So i'm not backing him on a wim. I just find it very hard to beleive the players went against the managers will, whether rightly or wrongly.

If that is the case then Martinez really has lost the dressing room and should go. Just walk out. What's the point in him being there?

 

[sheedys left foot]

I think that's massively unfair on the squad we have. They are certainly capable and on paper we have one of the best six squads in the league - but you can't play the tippy tappy stuff with a side low on confidence, and you can't play it full stop with a low tempo.

Chelsea, city, arsenal, united, spurs, the sh!te, an argument could be made for Southampton.

That makes us 7th/8th at best.

Howard, hibbert, distin, Alcarez, Mcgeady, Gibson, Atsu, osman, peinnar, Naismith, kone. None of the above would get into any of the teams listed above. Sure we have some real quality aswell but over all the squad is old and average. Big investment required if the Martinez system is to work.

 

[Connor]

So much wrong in one post, quite impressive.

1. Nobody turned up wanting to kick off. We wanted Everton to play well. For the first half an hour, we didn't.
2. The players aren't idiots - they know why the fans are kicking off and will understand the passion.
3. We changed it well before half time. Martinez is not the reason for that switch - Lukaku hulking up was, along with the crowd forcing the issue.

1. There people surrounding me last night who kicked off about 3/4 minutes in because we were cautious on the ball. 3 minutes into the game.
2. Passion ? Its nothing to do with passion, It's poison. Booing a side 15 minutes in, who else does that ? People want to be entitled. No one is entitled to anything, certainly not us.
3. It started to change by half time yes, but the swagger was in full affect after the break. We came out and got it down properly, shifted it right to left and battered them. Give the manager credit for changing it.

 

[Tubey]

1. There people surrounding me last night who kicked off about 3/4 minutes in because we were cautious on the ball. 3 minutes into the game.
2. Passion ? Its nothing to do with passion, It's poison. Booing a side 15 minutes in, who else does that ? People want to be entitled. No one is entitled to anything, certainly not us.
3. It started to change by half time yes, but the swagger was in full affect after the break. We came out and got it down properly, shifted it right to left and battered them. Give the manager credit for changing it.

He didn't change it, it was already happening!

The reason fans kick off a few minutes in is because of past form. You've seen it so often that it's a "here we go again" reaction and perfectly natural. The fans aren't to blame for the players coming out, and within 20 seconds ignoring a forward pass and going back to Alcaraz to pass sideways, whilst Lukaku once again makes a pointless run that'll never be made use of.

That "poison" from the crowd was single-handedly responsible for changing the emphasis of the game - Goodison isn't stupid; we have knowledgeable fans that saw the writing on the wall even when 3-1 up against QPR and were proven right by the form afterwards. They want an Everton side to impose their game, not meekly pass the ball side to side. If you want to see the real "poison", look at the style of play we are forced to adopt this season. That's poisonous.

 

[Tubey]

But couldn't you also say the same for the players? Why haven't they jibbed it off already if it's sooooo obvious (which it is of course!).

I think you know me well enough that i'm no Martinez fanboy. I absolutley am not. So i'm not backing him on a wim. I just find it very hard to beleive the players went against the managers will, whether rightly or wrongly.

If that is the case then Martinez really has lost the dressing room and should go. Just walk out. What's the point in him being there?

Think the saying is "the straw that broke the camels back". The players saw European football meekly slipping away, and as humans with functioning brains they did something about it. Jagielka led the team and grabbed the tempo by the scruff of the neck, and Lukaku was the catalyst that everyone led from.

They went against the manager not out of spite, but because of professional pride. I'm not sure whether he's lost the dressing room, but I do know that performance was for themselves first and foremost.

If the players come out against Newcastle in the same way, Martinez has managed them correctly, realised what needed to change and I'll give him credit for it. But I'm not prepared to give him any for last night, as I'd be lying to myself if I did.

 

[ijjysmith]

Think the saying is "the straw that broke the camels back". The players saw European football meekly slipping away, and as humans with functioning brains they did something about it. Jagielka led the team and grabbed the tempo by the scruff of the neck, and Lukaku was the catalyst that everyone led from.

They went against the manager not out of spite, but because of professional pride. I'm not sure whether he's lost the dressing room, but I do know that performance was for themselves first and foremost.

If the players come out against Newcastle in the same way, Martinez has managed them correctly, realised what needed to change and I'll give him credit for it. But I'm not prepared to give him any for last night, as I'd be lying to myself if I did.

I'm not saying that none of that is true mate. Just that we cannot be 100% certain on it. Either way.

 

[bluewally]

Think the saying is "the straw that broke the camels back". The players saw European football meekly slipping away, and as humans with functioning brains they did something about it. Jagielka led the team and grabbed the tempo by the scruff of the neck, and Lukaku was the catalyst that everyone led from.

They went against the manager not out of spite, but because of professional pride. I'm not sure whether he's lost the dressing room, but I do know that performance was for themselves first and foremost.

If the players come out against Newcastle in the same way, Martinez has managed them correctly, realised what needed to change and I'll give him credit for it. But I'm not prepared to give him any for last night, as I'd be lying to myself if I did.

Have to agree.

I think this is far more likely than the belief that Martinez suddenly decided 30 minutes into a match to change his entire philosophy

 

[ijjysmith]

Have to agree.

I think this is far more likely than the belief that Martinez suddenly decided 30 minutes into a match to change his entire philosophy

If it is that, where does that leave Martinez?

Players jibbing off the managers orders to do what they want? And what if it hadn't worked and we'd got tonked?