Luke Garbutt

[EFCPaul]

I'd like to see Garbutt given a go if Baines is injured and they don't to throw Oviedo in yet. Give the lad a go and see if he can seize his chance.

just anything, ANYTHING, but Hibbert at LB.

 

[Azzurri]

Better play a blinder, amke loads of tackes, score a hat trick, cure a young man of polio and turn some water into win Luke, or you'll be dismissed by some for life

It's your own fault for being a promising young player at Everton. You better be amazing or you'll prove you're just not up to it

Sake Mikey.

Give it a rest. You'll be crying over Shane Duffy in a sec.

 

[RaleighBlue]

...I suppose another consideration is if RM thinks/knows Garbutt has no intention of renewing his contract.

Yeah, this is the other behind the scenes stuff I alluded to.

If he's said he's not renewing, he can rot. Viva La Hibbo.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Better play a blinder, amke loads of tackes, score a hat trick, cure a young man of polio and turn some water into win Luke, or you'll be dismissed by some for life

It's your own fault for being a promising young player at Everton. You better be amazing or you'll prove you're just not up to it

Is anyone making this argument?

 

[Azzurri]

Think that's the way of Moyes and the like.

You have to get the kids time on the pitch or they will never be the best team unless they're wunderkind or you're completely out of options.

Football is about the next game because fans and chairmen will turn on a manager that overlooks the next game while building for the future. I suspect this is an area that we can exploit by building a young team, letting them play together and learn together and work towards the goal in a few years time. While the kids need steady older heads, we have them in Jags, Distin, Barry and the like.

I do not know Luke Garbutt, and you could be right that having a poor game against Downing would be a greater knock to his confidence than not being picked. I do know that I would be more upset to not be given the chance over a player nearing the end of his career out of position. That would absolutely make my head drop and make me think I'm not good enough.

As for the now vs later argument, I think that's an interesting topic in its own right.

Every manager really IMO. How many young kids have Chelsea and City been playing this year? How many did Martinez play in the league last season?

Young kids who are borderline and not definite future first teamers only get a game in desperate times.

Paul Pogba sat on United's bench constantly.

Whether that's a necessary thing, a good thing, a bad thing, whatever, is completely down to opinion.

 

[moyeslovechild]

Hibbo is the better option and I would be disappointed if we risked playing some rookie with no future here

 

[Azzurri]

Hibbo is the better option and I would be disappointed if we risked playing some rookie with no future here

You seen much of Garbutt then, mate?

 

[RaleighBlue]

Every manager really IMO. How many young kids have Chelsea and City been playing this year? How many did Martinez play in the league last season?

Young kids who are borderline and not definite future first teamers only get a game in desperate times.

Paul Pogba sat on United's bench constantly.

Whether that's a necessary thing, a good thing, a bad thing, whatever, is completely down to opinion.

I can agree with that. I'm of the opinion that it's an area of inefficiency. When you let Pogba sit on your bench constantly he goes to Juventus and you have to be linked with buying him back for loads of money.

One positive thing about Kenwright is that he gives his managers loads of leeway (arguably too much). We could feasibly do things like build for 2-3 years from now. Work like Germany and put out a team of mostly kids, with a few older experience heads, get them playing together now, not for immediate success, but for future success.

We have enough quality to not be relegated, and to hang out in the Top 6-7 while doing this. And I think it's our best path to consistent top 4 that doesn't rely on other teams being poor and stupid.

We don't have the money to buy our way there, so we need to exploit inefficiencies in the market - like short termism and fear.

 

[bluemangroup]

Better play a blinder, amke loads of tackes, score a hat trick, cure a young man of polio and turn some water into win Luke, or you'll be dismissed by some for life

It's your own fault for being a promising young player at Everton. You better be amazing or you'll prove you're just not up to it

Oh for gods sake Mikey. Please don't make this about Shane Duffy.

 

[bluemangroup]

I can agree with that. I'm of the opinion that it's an area of inefficiency. When you let Pogba sit on your bench constantly he goes to Juventus and you have to be linked with buying him back for loads of money.

One positive thing about Kenwright is that he gives his managers loads of leeway (arguably too much). We could feasibly do things like build for 2-3 years from now. Work like Germany and put out a team of mostly kids, with a few older experience heads, get them playing together now, not for immediate success, but for future success.

We have enough quality to not be relegated, and to hang out in the Top 6-7 while doing this. And I think it's our best path to consistent top 4 that doesn't rely on other teams being poor and stupid.

We don't have the money to buy our way there, so we need to exploit inefficiencies in the market - like short termism and fear.

Whilst I don't disagree with the principle of it, throwing in youngsters who may well not make the grade for the sake of development seems stupid. They'd also damage he reputations of our other be talented youngsters if the team performed poorly by association. You only have to look at Villa to see what can happen and how long it's taking them to shrug off.
The way we are doing it at present seems the best. We have struck a balance between youth and experience. The young lads can develop and get better as a group and become familiar with each other's games, it all grows organically whilst the more experienced members of the team ensure we aren't losing out on too many points. Don't really want to overload the side with youth.

 

[Tubey]

For me, Garbutt is definitely read to play. Not as first choice and regardless of his performance if he starts that would be the case as he's still developing, but he's impressed every time I've seen him and there's nothing to suggest he'll let us down.

He's two years younger than Baines was when he finally got ahead of Lescott in the starting lineup for us when we were a much poorer team, so the fact he hasn't broke through yet is nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever given he has two full internationals ahead of him.

If he gets his chance, he'll take it IMO and continue to be around the squad.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Whilst I don't disagree with the principle of it, throwing in youngsters who may well not make the grade for the sake of development seems stupid. They'd also damage he reputations of our other be talented youngsters if the team performed poorly by association. You only have to look at Villa to see what can happen and how long it's taking them to shrug off.
The way we are doing it at present seems the best. We have struck a balance between youth and experience. The young lads can develop and get better as a group and become familiar with each other's games, it all grows organically whilst the more experienced members of the team ensure we aren't losing out on too many points. Don't really want to overload the side with youth.

So far I agree with you. We have done a very good job integrating younger players with our more experienced heads.

I am simply questioning why out of position Tony Hibbert would be selected over a promising youth product if we're going on the assumption that Hibbo is better for this game only.

Here's my thinking:
If Garbutt isn't and won't be good enough - pick Hibbo
If Garbutt has made it clear he won't be resigning - pick Hibbo
Any other case - pick Garbutt

If Garbutt is currently questionably good enough, but we think he will be, play him for his development, for the future, for other youth teamers to hold up as an example...the downsides are three points. The upsides are greater (to me).

 

[LinekersLegs]

That's the lad yeah, he's been flying so it would be a big blow for them and big bonus for us if he misses out.

Hibberts very experienced and has proved his defensive versatility in the past so it wouldn't exactly be a big stretch for him, in fact it's the sort of role in the right he excels at.

Given Oviedos recovery I wouldn't rule this out as Garbutts one and only opportunity this season.

@BenDinnery: [@whustuff] Believes its looking increasingly likely that Downing & Sakho will both miss out this weekend "not looking good" #WHUFC

Edit
@whustuff: I was just told that up to 4 players that started against Aston Villa are major doubts for the Everton game.
@whustuff: Downing unfortunately has NO chance of being involved against Everton - he aggravated his knee injury by playing for England. I'm also told West Ham chiefs aren't happy that Downing was cleared to play for England despite obvious knee problems. Not looking good.
@whustuff: Sam Allardyce instructed not to risk any players as there's a great chance of further injuries. Squad depth crucial over Xmas period.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Bloody hell

That's what happens when you type too quickly kids!

I think the sentiment rings true though, even past my awful grammar and spelling mistakes

Just you wait, the usual suspects will show up after this game to decry young Luke. The only way it won't happen will be if he's simply amazing. Just having a solid game won't be enough.

Just. You. Wait

 

[bluemangroup]

So far I agree with you. We have done a very good job integrating younger players with our more experienced heads.

I am simply questioning why out of position Tony Hibbert would be selected over a promising youth product if we're going on the assumption that Hibbo is better for this game only.

Here's my thinking:
If Garbutt isn't and won't be good enough - pick Hibbo
If Garbutt has made it clear he won't be resigning - pick Hibbo
Any other case - pick Garbutt

If Garbutt is currently questionably good enough, but we think he will be, play him for his development, for the future, for other youth teamers to hold up as an example...the downsides are three points. The upsides are greater (to me).

I'd also play him on Saturday. I think he's good enough and I think he's a better option than to shoehorn old faithful in a position he's untested in. I also think he probably will play, so all this flanneling we are collectively doing may well be immaterial.

But I think there's a big difference between not thinking he's good enough now and writing him off forever. And if the manager thinks this is too soon, then I can understand that and I'd hope the player would too.