Last big game we won?

[BlueToff]

Awful bottlers mentality that's is rife through the the club

No it isn't. Not anymore.

Manager and players got it wrong against a better team on Sunday.

One defeat in 10.

Get. A. Grip. (that's directed to all bed-wetters/moaners btw - not Ernier in particular)

 

[Papa Shango]

Probably Manchester United when we clinched 4th.

How pathetic is that actually? Modern football for you.

Anyway we then proceeded to get beat 7-0 by Arsenal (I wanted Moyes out there and then) before getting knocked out of the CL qualifers and then got humiliated by the mighty Dinamo Bucharest.

Shambolic and so very Everton.

 

[BlueToff]

We very very rarely win when it really matters because we our senior pros are born losers and don't fear defeat. And our board think 7th is good.

Lots needs to change.

7th will be a good place to start.

We were crap on Sunday, yet didn't get battered (somehow). The better team won but we were still in it.

WBA on Saturday is a big game in regards to this season.

It's not the be all and end all though. Nothing ever is, despite what people will have you believe.

 

[Papa Shango]

No it isn't. Not anymore.

Manager and players got it wrong against a better team on Sunday.

One defeat in 10.

Get. A. Grip.

Nah its still there in the more obvious places (ie the old guard)

We have not been in a position to fully bottle it yet as we have not had any massive games. Hopefully by the time those games to come around the last of the bottlers will be away from the first team.

 

[BlueToff]

Nah its still there in the more obvious places (ie the old guard)

We have not been in a position to fully bottle it yet as we have not had any massive games. Hopefully by the time those games to come around the last of the bottlers will be away from the first team.

We've trimmed half the squad since the end of last season though.

Still a lot of work to be done.

As said, Koeman got it wrong on Sunday and that enabled some individual mistakes to occur and lead to a defeat against a better side. That happens.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

to much glasses half empty on here

 

[TraffordBlue]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that Moyes's record in big games was terrible. I just think it often gets swept under the carpet that for some years before (and now some years after) his tenure, our record was no better than when he was here.

I agree with this.

To me, I am seeing no difference in our general performances and results in those away games as I saw under Moyes. Under Moyes, we should have beaten Arsenal that time when Pienaar scored the chip to make it 2-1. What did we do...conceded in the last minute for a 2-2 draw. We should have beaten Chelsea last season at Stamford Bridge after going 3-2 up when Mori scored. What did we do...gave away a 98th minute equaliser (even if it was offside).

We had some horrific derby performances under Moyes, like the 0-3 where Gerrard scored a hat-trick. The exact same thing continued under Martinez with 0-4 defeats.

The 0-5 at Stamford Bridge from Koeman was no better than some of the hammerings we got under Moyes or before that. We would get beat by big scorelines in the 90's before Moyes' time. A 1-5 at Old Trafford after Jeffers put us 1-0 ahead springs to mind.

There are times when we inevitably lose because the other team is better than us. Spurs on Sunday was an example of that. I can handle defeats like that. What I cannot forgive about our team in the past 20-25 years are those games where we have completely bottled it.

The Arsenal 2-2 I mentioned, the Chelsea 3-3. Going up 3-1 on aggregate to City in the Semi Final last season. Absolutely hammering Man United in the second half of the semi last season, then missing a penalty and conceding in the last minute. Seeing our rivals best player sent off after 20 minutes at Anfield, only to allow them a win when playing 10 men. The same happening when Kyrgiagos got sent off and we once again lost to 10 men.

It needs to change.

 

[paulbefc]

Arsenal at home and Sunderland away in 13/14 were certainly very big games. They'd definitely have been called big games if we hadn't won them and we'd have called ourselves bottlers for not winning them. Arsenal won every single game from our win against them onwards I think so I'm not sure we'd have got 4th even if we had won against Palace.

United at home and Villa away in 04/05 were pretty huge and it's pretty impressive we won them, looking back. Having the bottle to close out 4th with a 2-0 win vs Newcastle with the reds breathing down our necks was a good effort too.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Arsenal at home and Sunderland away in 13/14 were certainly very big games. They'd definitely have been called big games if we hadn't won them and we'd have called ourselves bottlers for not winning them. Arsenal won every single game from our win against them onwards I think so I'm not sure we'd have got 4th even if we had won against Palace.

United at home and Villa away in 04/05 were pretty huge and it's pretty impressive we won them, looking back. Having the bottle to close out 4th with a 2-0 win vs Newcastle with the reds breathing down our necks was a good effort too.

That season, Gravesen Cahill Carsley and Martyn had a mentality I've not seen in many Everton players since. They just didn't seem phased by achievement, you can probably add big Dunc in there as well. In terms of talent not as great perhaps but they carried players with them. Who do the current players look to?

 

[TraffordBlue]

That season, Gravesen Cahill Carsley and Martyn had a mentality I've not seen in many Everton players since. They just didn't seem phased by achievement, you can probably add big Dunc in there as well. In terms of talent not as great perhaps but they carried players with them. Who do the current players look to?

It's a good point, and I know it's been mentioned in the past but our experienced players now are 'too nice'. The likes of Barry, Jagielka and Baines. Only Barry out of the 3 has won anything and he is at the end of his career. Maybe including Barry in that isn't fully correct as he often hacks players down if they breeze past him but his questioning of referees never seems to go too far.

We have made a step in the right direction bringing in a player like Schneiderlin. I'm sure he had a hand in the goal being given at Stoke. The only other player I can think of in the squad who has the attitude I am talking about is McCarthy, and he's a squad player. When he fouls someone, he doesn't rush over to see if they're alright like Baines does.

We need to bring in a few players (obviously with quality) who don't get over awed by Famous Stadiums, and don't cave in to a home crowd/team demanding we kick the ball out for an 'injured' opposition player feigning injury. I like the fact we're well liked as a club for certain things we do off the pitch, but I wish we were hated on the pitch because of our desire to win, and doing the things needed to be winners. Man United in the 90's behaved disgracefully towards referees. Their players didn't care because it worked! Things like that can have a big impact on how you do in big games.

 

[FTY]

Dunno if it's been said but we 3-0'd Arsenal late in RM's first season when we were battling them for 4th.

Was a must win at the time, think it put us above them

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Dunno if it's been said but we 3-0'd Arsenal late in RM's first season when we were battling them for 4th.

Was a must win at the time, think it put us above them

Yeah and then we went on to bottle it against Palace

Heart breaking

 

[davids]

I can remember way back in 97 when Derby went to Old Trafford and beat United 3-2 thinking,why can't we do that.

 

[Cels]

1984 LC Final - Narrowly lost to the League/European Champions in a replay.
1984 FA Cup Final - WON
1985 ECWC - WON
1985 - Lost in extra time three days after the ECWC. One game too far in a mammoth season.
1986 - Two top teams. Played well enough, but Rush's brilliance did us on the day.

We were a shadow of Kendall's team by 1989, Liverpool were not. With the emotion around that game it was always going to be even more difficult for us.

We did the club proud in every big game in the 80's. And as people have said, we were almost big game specialists in the 90's with an awful team. I believe this complex we have only really developed during the Moyes years.

You can make up all the excuses and/or paint the picture any colour you wish. We still only won one domestic cup out of five finals reached (or two cups in six finals counting the ECWC). So even in our most successful period in history Everton were unable to fully push past the finishing line. But that's the difference between becoming a massively successful club, and a club who just had a brief period of success. We have pretty much always been like that; let's not lay the blame solely at the feet of Moyes.

Sorry for slightly taking this thread in a different direction; that was not my intention

 

[ToffeeDan]

We never upset the odds.. perhaps the longest shot we've achieved are a couple of wins at The Etihad under Moyes - maybe 5/1 or 6/1 - maybe Man U away in 1992 but that wouldn't be such a long shot back then. I can't recall a single result away from home where we've brought in a complete outsider.

We frequently lose at Spurs after taking the lead.. we miss out at Arsenal (2-2), Liverpool (2-2) and others.. not strong enough mentally and a manager (Moyes) who couldn't hack the pressure in almost all big games.

Wolfsburg away was one to be proud of, ditto Nuremburg, Bern and Athens but they were much weaker teams. We didn't get those 2nd leg results against.. Dukla, Panathinaikos, Inter, AC, Sporting, Dunfermline, Man Utd etc (Europe), City, Chelsea (League Cup).. the list is long and painful.. West Brom (1968), FA Cup replays vs Fulham, West Ham (though not Chelsea - penalty win). It's disappointing but that's why we say "Everton that". Hopefully, a few years down the line we'll be thinking about some better ones.