Current Affairs Joe Biden POTUS #46

[BirkenheadBlue]

the system that just tried to get rid of them, spending large sums to do so?

AOC raised $10.5m, her opponent $2m
Pressley ran unopposed in hers.

 

[Ruairi77]

Usually it is, but what happens when the people who used to control things find themselves out on their ear?

Do they work diligently to get back public trust or try and do a dirty protest until the party is so damaged that they get back in charge?

I'm not sure what you're getting at in relation to Sanders not joining the party.

 

[catcherintherye]

Ah, so I'm the segregationist now. I admit I didn't see that coming.

I can understand opposing a particular integrationist scheme in its practical application while maintaining a pro-integrationist general view. Not everything works over the long term, and not everything that works in the long term works at first. And I suppose we should be explicit: People can't read the future. I'd argue that most of the framers (heh) of the 1994 crime bill neither intended nor expected a major result to be a skyrocketing trend in race-based incarceration in the quarter-century since its passage. Let's not assume historical outcomes are the mirror of original intentions. That's not an apologia for Biden, it's a statement of reality.

My intention was not to frame you as a segregationist, I don't believe that at all. The point was we all know what signifiars mean. We all know that the term monkey is a value laden term that is about racism. Yet if someone says they like monkeys so why can't they call a black person a monkey is skirting around the edges. We are all bright enough to know the game. Biden particularly so.

That was a totemic issue, and he made the wrong call.

As for reading into the future, lots of people, not least leading black organisations foresaw the dangers of the Crime Bill at the time. Likewise most of them saw the dangers and horrors of segregation. These things were both widely critiqued. Biden didn't listen, or didn't want to listen. Thats up to him, but he shouldn't escape judgement for it.

I'm afraid what you are also doing is apologism. It doesn't do the left (which I assume you see yourself a part of) much good to engage in these arguments. Biden knew what he was doing, and as he said himself "he had to work with these people". It was a calculation, that ultimately white racists were more important to him than black people. I appreciate America was arguably an even more explicitly racist country then and to be able to get to the position he has now, maybe he had to forge such allegiances. It's worked well for Joe Biden and he has had a great life out of those alliances he's built, but many black people suffered as a result. It's pretty hard to argue against that position.

Maybe if he becomes President it's a sacrifice worth making. But lets not argue black is white, or a highly intelligent man, who made allegiances with racists and segregationists in order for career progression wasn't aware of what the rules of engagement were. It makes fools of all of us.

 

[catcherintherye]

AOC raised $10.5m, her opponent $2m
Pressley ran unopposed in hers.

But I'm right in saying AOC raised mianly from the community, her opponent from coorporate interest groups?

 

[catcherintherye]

Do you think Biden is racist?

I don't know the guy, so it's very hard to say either way and in honesty it's not really relevant or important. What I do know, is that he's been involved in some very dubious legislation and policy that has been instrumental in both upholding and developing the sort of structural impediments that damage the lives of black people. Whether his motivation is racism, or a pragmatism I'd suggest is unimportant to the black people who suffered as a result.

 

[Ruairi77]

AOC raised $10.5m, her opponent $2m
Pressley ran unopposed in hers.

Also, in 2018, they both unseated 20 year incumbents.

 

[catcherintherye]

But he did get to run!

He had the largest fundraising haul of any of the Democratic candidates, great name recognition, an enthusiastic group of supporters and only one competitor in his “wing” in the race in Warren with the more centrist votes split between a bunch of others.

And Sanders still barely scraped a win in Iowa against a neophyte in Buttigieg, his expected younger supporters/independents didn’t turn out to vote as predicted and once the field had narrowed down to him and Biden it was a bit of a rout.

And this was a portion of the electorate that was generally favorable to his policies.

By run, I mean run for President.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

But I'm right in saying AOC raised mianly from the community, her opponent from coorporate interest groups?

Yes. Washington Post reported that a significant number of her opponent's big donors were lifelong Republicans and Pro Trump organisations/people

Those sneaky Dems!

 

[catcherintherye]

Literally everyone - anywhere on the left side of the spectrum - wanted Trump to win the GOP Primary. Understandably so too.

And let's not forget by the way, for all Clinton's weaknesses as a candidate (and she had plenty) if and ONE of a number of factors (some in her control eg Wisconsin, some not, eg Comey and god knows how many others) she would have beaten Trump, and we'd never be having this conversation.

She didn't beat Trump though. The Democrats didn't beat Trump. They ignored the warnings, went with their canidate, and we have paid an enormous and untold price as a result. There is no reflection from these people either. No apology. No holding the hands up or contrition. They'd make all the same mistakes again given half a chance.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yes. Washington Post reported that a significant number of her opponent's big donors were lifelong Republicans and Pro Trump organisations/people

Those sneaky Dems!

Well probably yes. There is an amazing unity between elements of the ruling class when faced with the left. It crosses party divides.

 

[Ruairi77]

I don't know the guy, so it's very hard to say either way and in honesty it's not really relevant or important. What I do know, is that he's been involved in some very dubious legislation and policy that has been instrumental in both upholding and developing the sort of structural impediments that damage the lives of black people. Whether his motivation is racism, or a pragmatism I'd suggest is unimportant to the black people who suffered as a result.

ok, well that's a politicians answer.
I'm not sure you're fully taking in to account the significance of an established white middle class senator obediently playing second fiddle to a black president for 8 years.

 

[LinekersLegs]

By run, I mean run for President.

But he did - he ran in the primary that is the means of deciding who is going to be the Dem candidate for president.

And those voters, not the party, got to choose who they wanted. And it was particularly the African American voters who preferred Biden.

 

[catcherintherye]

do you think Sanders is a sexist because of letters he wrote 40 years ago?

I don't know the letters you refer to mate? If he's a man, he's probably sexist though, most men are.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

She didn't beat Trump though. The Democrats didn't beat Trump. They ignored the warnings, went with their canidate, and we have paid an enormous and untold price as a result. There is no reflection from these people either. No apology. No holding the hands up or contrition. They'd make all the same mistakes again given half a chance.

Everything you said there after the first 10 words is meaningly supposition and opinion though.

There's been plenty of reflection. The mistakes of the Clinton campaign have been litigated to the n'th degree at this point

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Well probably yes. There is an amazing unity between elements of the ruling class when faced with the left. It crosses party divides.

lol
So now even when the Right does something nefarious, it's a stick to beat the Democrats with.

Amazing.