Hummel

[bring the ghost on]

Agree, but competitively/on the field - to date, we've gone backwards under Moshiri.

No doubt, massive mistakes have been made at recruitment level.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

No doubt, massive mistakes have been made at recruitment level.

Club deserve all the credit in the world for Ancelotti, but through their own admission (well, Brands), we got a bit lucky.

When we sacked Silva, Ancelotti was still in a job.

God only knows who we'd have got if Ancelotti didn't get sacked/was willing to come.

The answer is likely Moyes.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Agree, but competitively/on the field - to date, we've gone backwards under Moshiri.

We'll get there now, but it's been a shambles for 90% of his time here.

Agreed that progress hasn’t been at the rate we wanted. As for going backwards though we were bottom half of the table consecutively under Martinez. We’ve not been bottom half under Moshiri at any point which given our total history in the premier league is something we only achieved for about 5 years under Moyes. It’s not been pretty and there’s been massive missed opportunities and plenty of humiliations but we had an abysmal squad in 17/18, terrible managers, an injury crisis, pretty much everything that could go wrong did, and we still finished 8th. That’s a far cry from anything in the pre Moyes prem era when relegation was always a possibility.

 

[ScotchToffee67]

It's trying to get to the next level that will be the tough part. How do we break the so called guaranteed "top 6". Think this has to be a long term goal. If Ancelotti has a sticky patch we need to stick with him. Might be an unpopular opinion but I wanted Silva to stay to try and turn things around. Gotta give them time to bring in their player, get a rhythm going and see what happens.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Agreed that progress hasn’t been at the rate we wanted. As for going backwards though we were bottom half of the table consecutively under Martinez. We’ve not been bottom half under Moshiri at any point which given our total history in the premier league is something we only achieved for about 5 years under Moyes. It’s not been pretty and there’s been massive missed opportunities and plenty of humiliations but we had an abysmal squad in 17/18, terrible managers, an injury crisis, pretty much everything that could go wrong did, and we still finished 8th. That’s a far cry from anything in the pre Moyes prem era when relegation was always a possibility.

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

 

[Furey1878]

Agree, but competitively/on the field - to date, we've gone backwards under Moshiri.

We'll get there now, but it's been a shambles for 90% of his time here.

Dunno man, we could all understand the reasons for hiring Koeman, Allardyce (vommits) and Silva even if many of us disagreed. Moshiri has given all of them money to spend which is all you can ask, don’t think anyone could have predicted how bad the Koeman/Walsh signing s would be.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

I think Moshiri made a mistake trusting Koeman beyond reservation. He learned a harsh lesson there but I think transfers have improved since Brands came in. Kenwright benefitted massively from Moyes being here. It’s just my opinion but I think that we around have been relegated if we hadn’t have had such a good manager at the time. Whereas under Moshiri when relegation has reared its head he was able to stump up 50 mill for Tosun and Walcott and they made an impact to take us out of trouble (although long term both have been poor signings).

I guess we’ll see what happens going forward but I think this is the first time in our premier league history we have a good manager and the financial backing to give him what he needs.

 

[Tim UpperBullen]

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

Whilst what you say about Moshiri sending Kenwright packing may be true it also may not be. Moshiri clearly has the majority shareholding but upon sale of the shares there may be a shareholders agreement which provides for Kenwright to have the position of chairman for a number of years for example, for his share to have extra voting weight etc We don't know. What we do know is that Bill is still around for one reason or another.......

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Whilst what you say about Moshiri sending Kenwright packing may be true it also may not be. Moshiri clearly has the majority shareholding but upon sale of the shares there may be a shareholders agreement which provides for Kenwright to have the position of chairman for a number of years for example, for his share to have extra voting weight etc We don't know. What we do know is that Bill is still around for one reason or another.......

That's a stretch, and if it was true - it's still on Moshiri for agreeing.

Ultimately, it's Farhad Moshiri's club.

I get Kenwright is red to a bull, and people will always look to blame him - but it's Moshiri's club and it has been since February 2016.

Every major decision since February 2016 has been Farhad Moshiri's call. The good (Ancelotti) and the bad (The Board, Allardyce, Koeman, Silva, Walsh).

Because we continue to market ourselves as plucky little Everton, and i don't see it changing till Blue Bill leaves tbh

 

[Tim UpperBullen]

That's a stretch, and if it was true - it's still on Moshiri for agreeing.

Ultimately, it's Farhad Moshiri's club.

I get Kenwright is red to a bull, and people will always look to blame him - but it's Moshiri's club and it has been since February 2016.

Every major decision since February 2016 has been Farhad Moshiri's call. The good (Ancelotti) and the bad (Allardyce, Koeman, Silva).

For what it is worth I think Moshiri keeps Bill as Chairman because he believes that he is a positive influence, in that players ex players, press and most fans (notwithstanding the vocal ones on social media) seem to support him. I also believe Moshiri makes the calls. We do not however know what agreement was reached when the shares were sold.....just a possibility

 

[Philw]

Club deserve all the credit in the world for Ancelotti, but through their own admission (well, Brands), we got a bit lucky.

When we sacked Silva, Ancelotti was still in a job.

God only knows who we'd have got if Ancelotti didn't get sacked/was willing to come.

The answer is likely Moyes.

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

That's a stretch, and if it was true - it's still on Moshiri for agreeing.

Ultimately, it's Farhad Moshiri's club.

I get Kenwright is red to a bull, and people will always look to blame him - but it's Moshiri's club and it has been since February 2016.

Every major decision since February 2016 has been Farhad Moshiri's call. The good (Ancelotti) and the bad (The Board, Allardyce, Koeman, Silva, Walsh).

@mods, off topic...

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

Got unt Hummel!! I thought this was the Hummel thread???

 

[Baldynut]

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

He got lucky with Moyes.....Kings Dock, Destination Kirkby, NTL, Safety certificates etc ..but thats for another thread

 

[Simon Buttle]

Moshiri's club now mate - he can change the Chairman whenever he likes.

Then why does'nt he? no reason whatsoever for Kenwright to be here, he has had his time.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

I think that's too selective that mate and the line in the sand of 10th place is pointless.

5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, (Moshiri arrives Feb 2016), 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th.

Means very little in reality, 11th is 47 points and 8th is 49. Meh.

I think we were more competitive on the pitch and had a better team and made better signings under Kenwright than we have so far under Moshiri. Even those Martinez seasons you refer to, give me them and some cup runs over Sam Allardyce.

All that said, my main point here is the issue of fans still blaming Kenwright. Things will change when he leaves apparently. Bill Kenwright hasn't been calling the shots since February 2016, and Moshiri can send him packing whenever he likes.

The only thing I would say to that is, it’s a lot more competitive now. A lot more money around now. Fulham came up last season, spent a 100mil and went down. Same thing could happen to villa this season.

When we got 4th the teams challenging us were Liverpool, who were more concerned with winning the champions league. Middlesbrough and Bolton.

City at that time were a bottom half team, spurs a yo yo team. Leeds I think had just got relegated.
Only 3 or 4 teams were spending any decent money.

It’s a totally different world now, don’t get me wrong we have spent a lot of money to basically stand still. And we need to improve our spending. I think our deficit on spending since Moshiri turned up is 235mil roughly. Wolves’s is very similar. Leicester were around the same figure until they sold Maguire.

Teams around relegation zone. West Ham 200mil Brighton 200mil. Bournemouth 180mil, Villa 160mil. These are rough figures, but won’t be far off