How long did Moyes hold us back for ?

[tonyhorne]

And I think it's harsh to say he was never pro-active - he actually did change, but it was for the worse. When he first arrived, he was humble, respectful, massively energetic and he worked miracles.

And the side initially played positive bright football. I remember things like a 5-2 or something defeat away at Newcastle made him realise that the defence had to be tighter before the real expansive stuff would succeed. He never really managed to achieve both.

Martinez has started much the same way as Moyes at Everton. Now we have a stronger defensive base to work from. Let's see how well we are taken forward from here.

One reasonably good season does not a legacy make............

 

[BoysInBlue]

 

[Chang Elephant]

showed his arrogance and conceit when he gutted the United backroom staff just because he thought he was god's gift to management and was convinced he'd be able to build an empire there in a month.

think we've all said it....arrogance, conceit, and deferential inferiority complex mixed up in one. Throw in the born again crap and he must be the psychiatrist's dream consultation.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Is anyone able to post on here the cracking picture and quotes from Moyes on Red cafe ...in 2002 ' i will make Everton better than Manchester United' and in 2014 'Job done' !

 

[hktoffee]

Long enough to make us feel the 7th place trophy was the best we would hope for.

 

[BigDuncis Blue]

he held us back, how long for I am not sure. He was just far too safe. Understand that in the stabilizing years there was a need to play the way we did, but we hit the point when it was time to take a risk, to actually go and try to win the hard games. Him not like taking a risk was the major reason we never won anything and the reason why we never won away at the top clubs

 

[Ihaters]

Moyes first game against Fulham in 2002 had this line up:

Simonsen; Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Pistone; Gemmill, Gravesen, Carsley, Unsworth Ferguson, Radzinski.

Not a relegation outfit at all it took woeful management by Walter to get us fannying around in the lower reaches.

Add in the "secret weapon" of a certain 16 yr old on his way and the picture is very different to the apocalypse inheritance that underpins the Moyes myth.

Moyes did manage the back to basics bit bringing stability but after the CL experience he soiled his kex and all ambition vanished.

He held us back but with the support of Evertonians.

You mention his first team..

His last team:

• 24 Howard
• 03 Baines
• 06 Jagielka
• 15 Distin
• 23 Coleman
• 04 Gibson
• 21 Osman (Hibbert - 89' )
• 22 Pienaar
• 25 Fellaini
• 11 Mirallas Booked (Oviedo - 90' )
• 28 Anichebe (Jelavic - 73' )

Your telling me that's not massively better?
It shouldn't be, if he didn't punch above his weight in the transfer market, we'd be one of the lowest spenders in the league, therefore everyone should of improved more than us, and we should of gone backwards not forwards.
As for Rooney, he was sold to United, so doesn't really back up your argument that he could use him to progress us, unless you mean in terms of finances...
Well we got more for Fellaini from Moyes so he gave as good as he received and still left us a massively supperior squad capable of fighting for europe, not just league survival so that doesn't really add up either.

You say it was the woeful management of Smith that was the reason we were in relegation fights.. yet we were in that position most of the 90's.
We tried several managers as well as Smith in fact... Kendall and Walker for example, and their little variations on that glorious squad you mention above, still ended up fighting relegation battles...

Then Moyes came who was apparently really average and holding us back, yet broke 4th for the first time since the sky 4 became dominant a few years later, and secured us battling for Europe season after season despite having naff all to spend to do it... it was just the quality of the team he inherited though?

 

[MACCA75]

Moyes first game against Fulham in 2002 had this line up:

Simonsen; Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs,
Pistone; Gemmill, Gravesen, Carsley,
Unsworth Ferguson, Radzinski.

Not a relegation outfit at all it took woeful management by Walter to get
us fannying around in the lower
reaches.

Add in the "secret weapon" of a certain 16 yr old on his way and the
picture is very different to the
apocalypse inheritance that underpins the Moyes myth.


Moyes did manage the back to basics bit bringing stability but after the CL
experience he soiled his kex and all
ambition vanished.

He held us back but with the support
of Evertonians.

Unsworth and Carsley on the wings. Surprised we weren't top 4 with that kind of creativity!

 

[banno]

Yeah, but playing Hibbert RB and Osman RW on the wide open spaces of Wembley, was definitely a clue about his ineptitude

What is the myth about Wembleys pitch being massive? It might be a yard or 2 larger than goodison and most pitches.

 

[Khalekan]

Ihaters....you were right about Moyes all along.

The critical mass of Evertonians and the totality of the United fan base are wrong.

I can't wait to hear what the Geordie nation makes of him.

Well played, sir

 

[nigelcoyb]

You mention his first team..

His last team:

• 24 Howard
• 03 Baines
• 06 Jagielka
• 15 Distin
• 23 Coleman
• 04 Gibson
• 21 Osman (Hibbert - 89' )
• 22 Pienaar
• 25 Fellaini
• 11 Mirallas Booked (Oviedo - 90' )
• 28 Anichebe (Jelavic - 73' )

Your telling me that's not massively better?
It shouldn't be, if he didn't punch above his weight in the transfer market, we'd be one of the lowest spenders in the league, therefore everyone should of improved more than us, and we should of gone backwards not forwards.
As for Rooney, he was sold to United, so doesn't really back up your argument that he could use him to progress us, unless you mean in terms of finances...
Well we got more for Fellaini from Moyes so he gave as good as he received and still left us a massively supperior squad capable of fighting for europe, not just league survival so that doesn't really add up either.

You say it was the woeful management of Smith that was the reason we were in relegation fights.. yet we were in that position most of the 90's.
We tried several managers as well as Smith in fact... Kendall and Walker for example, and their little variations on that glorious squad you mention above, still ended up fighting relegation battles...

Then Moyes came who was apparently really average and holding us back, yet broke 4th for the first time since the sky 4 became dominant a few years later, and secured us battling for Europe season after season despite having naff all to spend to do it... it was just the quality of the team he inherited though?

Really don't know why you bother mate it's been picked over a million times and if you think what Moyes did was anything but ordinary that's your business.

All I will say is every prediction I and others who saw it differently made about the man has come true.

But doubtless there's an excuse somewhere - knock yourself out.

 

[Groucho]

He should've gone after the semi defeat to Liverpool. Possibly the final defeat Vs Chelsea.

You can't defend a lead against Chelsea for 89 mins.

 

[LTblue]

Moyes left Everton in a much better state than when he took over and there is absolutely no argument with that for me. Martinez has taken it on to another level though.

 

[Jags..class]

he should have left when he stopped believing in the club and lost faith. When he first came, he was great, full of fight and hunger and wanted to build his own Manchester United at Everton, but then once he was groomed for the Man u job, he started putting himself first, and his ego grew, remember the nasty stare he gave the fans cos he booed his subs.

 

[Ihaters]

Really don't know why you bother mate it's been picked over a million times and if you think what Moyes did was anything but ordinary that's your business.

All I will say is every prediction I and others who saw it differently made about the man has come true.

But doubtless there's an excuse somewhere - knock yourself out.

I love it when people throw out arguments during a debate, then pretend like there was only one person involved in the argument if it's not going their way.
I don't know why you bother arguing the facts of an opinion either, but you do, its a forum, I guess its what people do. If you don't like it, don't get involved or use the ignore button.

I simply don't need to make excuses for our ex manager progressing us from 15th to 6th.