Greek Financial Crisis

[Toffeelover]

Ireland and Greece are two completely different cases though.

Ireland people were screwed over by the government guaranteeing bank losses (idiots!)
Which landed us with one of the largest soveirgn debts in the world, whereas before the guarantee we had one of the lowest!
Ireland's taxation system is one of the most efficient in the world and it was quite easy for the replacement government to slap taxes on stuff and hike charges across the board to get the deficit down.
Ever hear of a USC? THE most hated charge.

Whereas Greece...

Yes?

 

[bizzaro]

Ireland and Greece are two completely different cases though.

Ireland people were screwed over by the government guaranteeing bank losses (idiots!)
Which landed us with one of the largest soveirgn debts in the world, whereas before the guarantee we had one of the lowest!
Ireland's taxation system is one of the most efficient in the world and it was quite easy for the replacement government to slap taxes on stuff and hike charges across the board to get the deficit down.
Ever hear of a USC? THE most hated charge.

Though, I would say Irish people do like avoiding taxes and there is still quite a large cash economy in Ireland.

Whereas Greece...

No they aren't.

They are very similar examples.

One government took action. Made hard structural decisions.

Another didn't.

 

[bizzaro]

The European statistics agency, Eurostat, had at regular intervals ever since 2004, sent 10 delegations to Athens with a view to improving the reliability of statistical figures related to the Greek national account, but apparently to no avail. In January 2010, it issued a damning report which contained accusations of falsified data and political interference.[167]


So this situation has been at least 10 years in the making and previous Greek governments despite advice would not listen and actively tried to block any attempts to help economic reforms.

 

[thirdmantackle]

No they aren't.

They are very similar examples.

One government took action. Made hard structural decisions.

Another didn't.

Errrr, we had the taxation system to do it.
the government basically put a flat charge on all salaries, pensions, hiked charges in lots of areas.

Ireland didn't rack up large national debts borrowing to build things like Olympic stadiums etc
It was our banks that did the damage and the fallacy of a government trying to prop them up to save face.
The economy was still structurally sound.

Greece doesn't have an economy able to withstand these huge debts.

 

[Toffeelover]

Errrr, we had the taxation system to do it.
the government basically put a flat charge on all salaries, pensions, hiked charges in lots of areas.

Ireland didn't rack up large national debts borrowing to build things like Olympic stadiums etc
It was our banks that did the damage and the fallacy of a government trying to prop them up to save face.
The economy was still structurally sound.

Greece doesn't have an economy able to withstand these huge debts.

Oh yes, which ones? because do not recall, LLoyds, Barclays, RBS or HSBC saying they were owed billions.

 

[bizzaro]

Errrr, we had the taxation system to do it.
the government basically put a flat charge on all salaries, pensions, hiked charges in lots of areas.

Ireland didn't rack up large national debts borrowing to build things like Olympic stadiums etc
It was our banks that did the damage and the fallacy of a government trying to prop them up to save face.
The economy was still structurally sound.

Greece doesn't have an economy able to withstand these huge debts.

Thats wrong.

Ireland was the one deemed most at risk in 2010

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8508136.stm

There are also fears that Greece's troubles in the international financial markets will trigger a domino effect, toppling other weak members of the eurozone, such as the so-called "Piigs" - Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain as well as Greece - all of whom face challenges rebalancing their books.

 

[Chang Elephant]

state of this thread

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Greece doesn't have an economy able to withstand these huge debts.

Whilst the total debt is indeed incredibly high @ 175% of GDP, the debt is largely at an incredibly low interest rate, meaning that debt repayments are around 2.6% of GDP. To put that into perspective, the UK debt repayments are around 3% of GDP each year, so if the Greeks aren't capable of paying off their debts, neither are we.

 

[Toffeelover]

Whilst the total debt is indeed incredibly high @ 175% of GDP, the debt is largely at an incredibly low interest rate, meaning that debt repayments are around 2.6% of GDP. To put that into perspective, the UK debt repayments are around 3% of GDP each year, so if the Greeks aren't capable of paying off their debts, neither are we.

utter, utter bo**ocks Bruce. There is no comparison, our economy is stronger, governmental incomptence is not as bad, and we do not have anything like their level of corruption or evasion.

You come out with some looloos now and again, well done Mate.

 

[bizzaro]

utter, utter bo**ocks Bruce. There is no comparison, our economy is stronger, governmental incomptence is not as bad, and we do not have anything like their level of corruption or evasion.

You come out with some looloos now and again, well done Mate.

He's right mate.

Difference is. People in the UK expect to pay their taxes (or at least the taxes they are legally required to pay). Its viewed as immoral to engage in excessive tax avoidance or people going further than simple tax efficiency measures.

Debtors are forced to pay creditors in the courts.

The government is held to account by the electorate and people can see if the government is acting improperly and don't make excuses for government economic incompetence.


This is why the UK isn't viewed as a risk - PROVIDED that the debt and deficit position does not worsen and that a plan is in place to reverse it in the longer term

 

[Toffeelover]

He is right only in a an extremely different scenario. Greek culture is nothing like ours.

 

[bizzaro]

He is right only in a an extremely different scenario. Greek culture is nothing like ours.

Like - we pay our taxes - you mean?

And - we can't expect to run deficits for ever and ever - you mean?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

utter, utter bo**ocks Bruce. There is no comparison, our economy is stronger, governmental incomptence is not as bad, and we do not have anything like their level of corruption or evasion.

You come out with some looloos now and again, well done Mate.

I'm saying that the level of debt is not the reason why things are as they are in Greece, because their debt repayments are lower than our own. So the suggestion that it is punitive debt that is holding Greece back is not right.

 

[Toffeelover]

Like - we pay our taxes - you mean?

And - we can't expect to run deficits for ever and ever - you mean?

No, come on, we do largely pay our taxes. We do have evasion but nothing the Greek scale. Our poor situation is not just a case of the bank problem but the administration prior to 2010 maxing out the credit card!

 

[bizzaro]

I'm saying that the level of debt is not the reason why things are as they are in Greece, because their debt repayments are lower than our own. So the suggestion that it is punitive debt that is holding Greece back is not right.

So you're saying its the fact that the Greek government somehow think they don't have to repay debt is the reason?