Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

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How awesome would it be if -
The liberal wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to prevent a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"
The conservative wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to get a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"

Everyone in between is being drawn into a black/white "If Kavanaugh isn't a rapist then he's a liar/no he's not". The national discussion is simply competing conjecture, soundbites and memes being hurled. There will be will be a biter loser, and a vindictive winner. There will be unimaginative collateral damage - the people front and center, their families and friends, the political system, democratic processes and basic human decency. Friendships destroyed via social media, festering hatred for total strangers and a continued move toward an inflexible "all or nothing". And there will be another nominee at some point. This year, next year, next administration whatever, and it will be just as vicious. And the crux of it is a 1973 SCOTUS ruling.

Is there a point where we, as citizens, realize that we are unwittingly destroying our society by being forced into one of two intolerant camps? That the price of "victory" is absolutely unacceptable? That we, as diverse as we are, on aggregate, still have far more in common than not? God I hope we do.
 
Ghoat said:
How awesome would it be if -
The liberal wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to prevent a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"
The conservative wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to get a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"

Everyone in between is being drawn into a black/white "If Kavanaugh isn't a rapist then he's a liar/no he's not". The national discussion is simply competing conjecture, soundbites and memes being hurled. There will be will be a biter loser, and a vindictive winner. There will be unimaginative collateral damage - the people front and center, their families and friends, the political system, democratic processes and basic human decency. Friendships destroyed via social media, festering hatred for total strangers and a continued move toward an inflexible "all or nothing". And there will be another nominee at some point. This year, next year, next administration whatever, and it will be just as vicious. And the crux of it is a 1973 SCOTUS ruling.

Is there a point where we, as citizens, realize that we are unwittingly destroying our society by being forced into one of two intolerant camps? That the price of "victory" is absolutely unacceptable? That we, as diverse as we are, on aggregate, still have far more in common than not? God I hope we do.
Click to expand...

Since @mezzrow won't answer me, do you think it's acceptable for a SC nominee to go on a partisan rant in front of the nation and the Senate Judicary Committee?
 
Ghoat said:
How awesome would it be if -
The liberal wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to prevent a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"
The conservative wing was just honest and said "Our concern is Roe v Wade, and we will do absofreakinglutely anything in our power to get a 5-4 conservative SCOTUS that may or may not overturn it"

Everyone in between is being drawn into a black/white "If Kavanaugh isn't a rapist then he's a liar/no he's not". The national discussion is simply competing conjecture, soundbites and memes being hurled. There will be will be a biter loser, and a vindictive winner. There will be unimaginative collateral damage - the people front and center, their families and friends, the political system, democratic processes and basic human decency. Friendships destroyed via social media, festering hatred for total strangers and a continued move toward an inflexible "all or nothing". And there will be another nominee at some point. This year, next year, next administration whatever, and it will be just as vicious. And the crux of it is a 1973 SCOTUS ruling.

Is there a point where we, as citizens, realize that we are unwittingly destroying our society by being forced into one of two intolerant camps? That the price of "victory" is absolutely unacceptable? That we, as diverse as we are, on aggregate, still have far more in common than not? God I hope we do.
Click to expand...

I'm kinda sick and tired of this 'two extreme camps' stuff.
The president is donald trump who right now is tweeting some nonsense with caps lock on.
The supreme court nomination is some self entitled nut who clearly has no problem lying.
Roe is important but a conservative majority could easily reverse gay marriage, push citizens united further, destroy unions, and push the president beyond the law.
So it's not a two sides thing, in fact sometimes I wish it was, the right have lost the plot and the left are tip toeing around trying to play by the book. Just look at the Kavanaugh hearing on Thursday.
 
Ruairi77 said:
I'm kinda sick and tired of this 'two extreme camps' stuff.
The president is donald trump who right now is tweeting some nonsense with caps lock on.
The supreme court nomination is some self entitled nut who clearly has no problem lying.
Roe is important but a conservative majority could easily reverse gay marriage, push citizens united further, destroy unions, and push the president beyond the law.
So it's not a two sides thing, in fact sometimes I wish it was, the right have lost the plot and the left are tip toeing around trying to play by the book. Just look at the Kavanaugh hearing on Thursday.
Click to expand...

Yes, look at what the hearing boils down to -
Dr Ford said she was sexually assaulted by Kavanaugh, and that she is 100% sure. She recalled specifics of the house, the room, what she heard, what she was thinking and felt at the time, what happened, and got very emotional when retelling it. None of that proves her allegation is true.
She can't recall when the event occurred, where the event occurred, why she was there, how she got there, or how she got home. The three people who she says were witness to the event all dispute being a witness, or even being present. None of that proves her allegation is false.

Kavanaugh denies the accusation, and said in no uncertain language that he never assaulted Dr Ford. There is nothing else he can say to prove he didn't commit an act on an unspecified night at an undefined place. He provided a calendar/diary that allegedly lays out his activities, with names, most of the summer. Which while interesting, doesn't prove his denial is truthful. Or false.

How her letter got from the Senator into the press, and her sudden anxiety of air travel to get to DC proves Kavanaugh's innocence. Kavanaugh's drinking habits in HS and roommate disputes in college prove he is guilty. Everyone saw the circumstantial "proof" of what they already "knew" was true. It was an 11-10 vote to proceed to the Senate floor before the allegations became public. After 7+ hours of trying to prove/disprove conflicting statements between 2 people from 35+ years ago with ZERO facts on either side....the committee voted 11-10 down party lines.

I would also add, the discussion before and after hearings was on how the 5 (3 GOP 2 Dem) "swing votes" would go. Meaning 95% of the Senate had pretty much already made up their mind long before the allegations surfaced.

Note I am not pointing at one side, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion that this isn't about two extreme camps who are fully entrenched.
 
Ghoat said:
Yes, look at what the hearing boils down to -
Dr Ford said she was sexually assaulted by Kavanaugh, and that she is 100% sure. She recalled specifics of the house, the room, what she heard, what she was thinking and felt at the time, what happened, and got very emotional when retelling it. None of that proves her allegation is true.
She can't recall when the event occurred, where the event occurred, why she was there, how she got there, or how she got home. The three people who she says were witness to the event all dispute being a witness, or even being present. None of that proves her allegation is false.

Kavanaugh denies the accusation, and said in no uncertain language that he never assaulted Dr Ford. There is nothing else he can say to prove he didn't commit an act on an unspecified night at an undefined place. He provided a calendar/diary that allegedly lays out his activities, with names, most of the summer. Which while interesting, doesn't prove his denial is truthful. Or false.

How her letter got from the Senator into the press, and her sudden anxiety of air travel to get to DC proves Kavanaugh's innocence. Kavanaugh's drinking habits in HS and roommate disputes in college prove he is guilty. Everyone saw the circumstantial "proof" of what they already "knew" was true. It was an 11-10 vote to proceed to the Senate floor before the allegations became public. After 7+ hours of trying to prove/disprove conflicting statements between 2 people from 35+ years ago with ZERO facts on either side....the committee voted 11-10 down party lines.

I would also add, the discussion before and after hearings was on how the 5 (3 GOP 2 Dem) "swing votes" would go. Meaning 95% of the Senate had pretty much already made up their mind long before the allegations surfaced.

Note I am not pointing at one side, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion that this isn't about two extreme camps who are fully entrenched.
Click to expand...

Ok but even if you dont believe Ford, look at the state of Kavanaugh. A blithering mess.
The Gorsuch seat was stolen, now they are trying to ram through a judge who has no qualms about lying.
There is no extreme left, if there was they might have had a linsay Graham style outburst but no, they couldn't even point out the obvious.
 
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