Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[verreauxi]

desperate stuff this

For someone who fancies themselves as "even-handed," nuanced and evidence-based, you always win by personal decree and nothing more when pushed into a corner. So if you say so, I'm happy again to proclaim you a winner. I know that's important to you.

 

[dholliday]

For someone who fancies themselves as "even-handed," nuanced and evidence-based, you always win by personal decree and nothing more when pushed into a corner. So if you say so, I'm happy again to proclaim you a winner. I know that's important to you.

you're avoiding the massive elephant by weirdly making this about me.

reminder: here's the elephant:

Let's discuss why you were never aware of this sort of thing, and when made aware, you try to brush it off as insignificant. If you're willing to think a little, Biden being Biden shines an interesting light on the Kavanaugh case (taking into account it took Ms Ford 40 years to come forward...)

 

[ilikecheese]

you're avoiding the massive elephant by weirdly making this about me.

reminder: here's the elephant:

Let's discuss why you were never aware of this sort of thing, and when made aware, you try to brush it off as insignificant. If you're willing to think a little, Biden being Biden shines an interesting light on the Kavanaugh case (taking into account it took Ms Ford 40 years to come forward...)

I think you are wrong. When Franken was credibly accused Democrats as a whole said he had to resign...even if it was painful at the time.

 

[dholliday]

I think you are wrong.

Wrong about what? I'm only mirroring what Time Magazine, Washington Post and others have discussed (as per the links I shared). Are they 'wrong' too or do you mean another type of wrong?

 

[ilikecheese]

Wrong about what? I'm only mirroring what Time Magazine, Washington Post and others have discussed (as per the links I shared). Are they 'wrong' too or do you mean another type of wrong?

Wrong about the tribalism claim. Remember when Franken was credibly accused? Democrats as a whole said he needed to resign.

 

[ilikecheese]

Wrong about the tribalism claim. Remember when Franken was credibly accused? Democrats as a whole said he needed to resign.

To add to this I distinctly remember right wingers on twitter laughing at Democrats for eating one of their own.

 

[dholliday]

Wrong about the tribalism claim. Remember when Franken was credibly accused? Democrats as a whole said he needed to resign.

Ok, so someone accusing a Republican of sexual deviancy 40 years ago is more or less 'credible' than video-evidence of a then-sitting Vice-President groping underage girls?

Do you know who Jimmy Savile was? There's very similar video-evidence of him groping around...now we call it hiding in plain sight. If it took Ms Ford (assuming she's telling the truth) 40 years to come forward that during her teenage years a fellow student tried to rape her, then we can fairly assume young girls being groped by powerful old men are gonna take as long to eventually come forward.

The point is to not be so gleeful into laying into Kavanaugh while turning a blind eye to deviancy within the party one supports. If we assume the best of Biden (i.e. he's just a hugger) then why shouldn't we assume the best of Kavanaugh? Just because he has an accuser? Or because he's a Republican?

 

[ilikecheese]

Ok, so someone accusing a Republican of sexual deviancy 40 years ago is more or less 'credible' than video-evidence of a then-sitting Vice-President groping underage girls?

Do you know who Jimmy Savile was? There's very similar video-evidence of him groping around...now we call it hiding in plain sight. If it took Ms Ford (assuming she's telling the truth) 40 years to come forward that during her teenage years a fellow student tried to rape her, then we can fairly assume young girls being groped by powerful old men are gonna take as long to eventually come forward.

The point is to not be so gleeful into laying into Kavanaugh while turning a blind eye to deviancy within the party one supports. If we assume the best of Biden (i.e. he's just a hugger) then why shouldn't we assume the best of Kavanaugh? Just because he has an accuser? Or because he's a Republican?

Kavanagh completely avoided answering straight questions. Ford answered her questions directly. Kavanagh lied under oath which is a felony in the country. He also went off on a partisan rant, which is more than enough for him to not be confirmed.

 

[dholliday]

Kavanagh completely avoided answering straight questions. Ford answered her questions directly. Kavanagh lied under oath which is a felony in the country. He also went off on a partisan rant, which is more than enough for him to not be confirmed.

no further questions, m'lud

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'm confused why Joe Biden is relevant right now. If Biden committed sexual misconduct than he should fall the same as anyone else but currently Biden isn't being confirmed to the Supreme Court. It's no different than shouting about Hilary when discussing the Mueller investigation. If she did illegal things then she should be investigated and brought to trial but really Trump and his sections of the media bring it up as a distraction because they have no credible argument for Trump not being investigated otherwise. This is the same crap.

 

[Ruairi77]

I'm confused why Joe Biden is relevant right now. If Biden committed sexual misconduct than he should fall the same as anyone else but currently Biden isn't being confirmed to the Supreme Court. It's no different than shouting about Hilary when discussing the Mueller investigation. If she did illegal things then she should be investigated and brought to trial but really Trump and his sections of the media bring it up as a distraction because they have no credible argument for Trump not being investigated otherwise. This is the same crap.

He’s not, dholiday is bored and trying to get a rise out of people.

 

[TheBigIguana]

He’s not, dholiday is bored and trying to get a rise out of people.

I know but this is almost a proxy for me because there are certainly people around where I live who actually think like this. Personally I'm too young too be attached to the Obama era, I was 13 in 2008, so by all means destroy Biden. But to pretend like we should drop this and pursue that is crazy and more importantly that is an actual widespread attitude toward the Mueller probe.

 

[dholliday]

I know but this is almost a proxy for me because there are certainly people around where I live who actually think like this. Personally I'm too young too be attached to the Obama era, I was 13 in 2008, so by all means destroy Biden. But to pretend like we should drop this and pursue that is crazy and more importantly that is an actual widespread attitude toward the Mueller probe.

My point wasn't let's go after Biden right now, my point was this:

Turn the tables: imagine the Republicans are being all holier-than-thou and going after a well-respected Democrat in the same manner. I guarantee you'd see things differently.

Anti-Trumps have themselves a target-proxy in Kavanaugh because Trump endorsed him, hence the heaviness of the focus.


Let's not forget the plain facts of the Kavanaugh case: he is being accused of attempted rape from 40 years ago just as he is set to be confirmed to the Supreme Court. In the intervening 40 years there appears to be no hint of wrongdoing. The timing is interesting, at the very least. And the intense media focus also.

 

[TheBigIguana]

My point wasn't let's go after Biden right now, my point was this:


Anti-Trumps have themselves a target-proxy in Kavanaugh because Trump endorsed him, hence the heaviness of the focus.


Let's not forget the plain facts of the Kavanaugh case: he is being accused of attempted rape from 40 years ago just as he is set to be confirmed to the Supreme Court. In the intervening 40 years there appears to be no hint of wrongdoing. The timing is interesting, at the very least. And the intense media focus also.

Unfortunately we never got to see the Republicans do that because they just didn't hold a hearing instead. Also I'm not sure why the length of time matters at all. If it happened it happened and if it didn't it didn't whether it was yesterday or in 1982.

 

[dholliday]

Unfortunately we never got to see the Republicans do that because they just didn't hold a hearing instead. Also I'm not sure why the length of time matters at all. If it happened it happened and if it didn't it didn't whether it was yesterday or in 1982.

If it was alleged to have happened yesterday, it would be a lot easier to evidence and recall. As it happened 40 years ago, we know (well, you don't as you're very young) that recalling events from so long ago will be hazy at best.