From the fence

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Our home record is abysmal, it is simply unacceptable.

For that reason alone, his inability to formulate a plan to beat the likes of Swansea, West Brom, Stoke et al...he has let us down. This squad should be top 5. I see it, most blues I speak to see it, the pundits certainly agree, so if you are putting forward an argument to keep him then I am afraid you have lost sight of what being an Evertonian is all about. Where is your ambition? Why is it ok to accept 11th?

Martinez out.
 

It takes a lot to dampen an Evertonians enthusiasm and conviction, a culmination of years of dross, relegation fears, expectation raising, light at the end of the tunnel scenarios all garnished with frustration. To some going to Goodison has become beyond a labour of love and into a chore or test of endurance.

The off field disappointments of which there are many, are catching up, the takeover talks that no one believes would go smoothly or happen at all, because we've been promised this stuff before only to fail spectacularly, are just a distraction.

A lot 'sit on the fence' because, 'this being Everton', things can swing one way to another on a breath, no one knows what to expect so they expect both. No other supporters could be 3-0 up with 10 minutes to go and still be bricking it.

We are the liberal-democrats of the league. There are a few tories saying everything is fine, some labour saying it's all doom. Nobody leads. Nobody. So we wander around aimlessly in the middle, could make CL, could flirt with relegation, it's all so humdrum......who gets excited at humdrum?
 
I'm not there, but it has reached a point where I do not watch the Goodison games live. I just wait until its over and see what happened before I either watch or delete the match that I've recorded.

It's like watching your favorite pet attacked by your next favorite pet, to the point that all she'll do is hide under the bed.

(buys @chicoazul a virtual pint, which we both then cry into...)

Find me any footy fan who's not frustrated. Go ahead, it's not hard. (waits, does not hold breath)
 
oldblue said:
That's a depressing question. Started going regularly during the very dour early eighties but there's tales of me crying after results in the 70s.
I've got a ceramic Everton money box that's in the shape of a casey had since I was a toddler. Not even sure there's many here would know what a casey is
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I'm surprised that anyone who only started going in the eighties knows what a casey is.
 

LydiateLee said:
Our home record is abysmal, it is simply unacceptable.

For that reason alone, his inability to formulate a plan to beat the likes of Swansea, West Brom, Stoke et al...he has let us down. This squad should be top 5. I see it, most blues I speak to see it, the pundits certainly agree, so if you are putting forward an argument to keep him then I am afraid you have lost sight of what being an Evertonian is all about. Where is your ambition? Why is it ok to accept 11th?

Martinez out.
Click to expand...

Nobody is accepting 11th.

There's 12 games left of this season and we're six points off 5th.
 

oldblue said:
Took Fergie well over three years to win fans and press round at United. There were banners at the ground demanding he was sacked. I know it's a bit daft drawing comparisons but we are making a lot of assumptions on either side about what kind of manager Martinez is. Fergie was a one off.
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Before United of course he led my local team Aberdeen to dominante the old firm and beat Real Madrid! It wasn't just him though, there was a fearsome assistant in Archie Knox, and there were leaders on the pitch but you wont find many of those characters now in an era where a youth player earns more in a year than most of us can dream of. However it is clear when you look at losing injury time goals and so on that the team really needs someone to lead on the pitch the way that a player like Keane did - IMHO

As an aside and an insight into that 'one-off' era...

One of my ex's fathers worked in a slaughter house and knew one of the Fergie era Aberdeen players. Said player got a bag of bones off of him before a Rangers game and threw them all over the away dressing room floor before they arrived to put the sh!tters up them ;)
 
oldblue said:
Took Fergie well over three years to win fans and press round at United. There were banners at the ground demanding he was sacked. I know it's a bit daft drawing comparisons but we are making a lot of assumptions on either side about what kind of manager Martinez is. Fergie was a one off and while you can't argue with his success there were massive chunks of fortune and uncertainty along the way. He was quite happy to sell Paul Scholes before being talked out of it.
His famed temper and nasty side could be a reason for the success but he may also have succeeded despite it.
One thing he did eventually do was make sure that there were people who drove the team on the pitch. Don't think it will matter if we think a manager is too nice or too ruthless if that happens.
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Brown shoes will be remembered for bringing in players whom we could sell on a vastly inflated rates. His is out of his depth at this level.
 
Abertonian said:
Before United of course he led my local team Aberdeen to dominante the old firm and beat Real Madrid! It wasn't just him though, there was a fearsome assistant in Archie Knox, and there were leaders on the pitch but you wont find many of those characters now in an era where a youth player earns more in a year than most of us can dream of. However it is clear when you look at losing injury time goals and so on that the team really needs someone to lead on the pitch the way that a player like Keane did - IMHO

As an aside and an insight into that 'one-off' era...

One of my ex's fathers worked in a slaughter house and knew one of the Fergie era Aberdeen players. Said player got a bag of bones off of him before a Rangers game and threw them all over the away dressing room floor before they arrived to put the sh!tters up them ;)
Click to expand...
Don't really know why it took so long for fans to accept him when you look at his record, but I think you're right that he had the ability to spot an organiser on the pitch. Don't know where we'd get one without it costing a fortune but I'm pretty sure few would be excited at the prospect of a Peter Reid signing now.
Don't think anyone would get away with the bag of bones stunt now sadly.
I can maybe imagine Besic being up for it.
 
I'm an on the fencer so the article definitely strikes a chord. I like Martinez, he seems like a decent bloke and he has us playing good ball going forward. He's also getting the best from players where other managers failed (Barkley, Lukaku, Deulofeu, Lennon) and seems to be shrewd in the transfer market. His handling of young players, both in signing them and giving them a chance, is also very good.

We're muck at defending though. Whether this is down to coaching or personnel or just the way the team is set up is up for debate but ultimately the responsibility is his.

The whole "living up to potential" thing / best PL squad ever etc. doesn't help although I don't think it's fair measuring performance against supposition and often fantasy. What I mean is I'm not sure the players are certifiably good enough for top 4 / CL level. Also we may have the best PL squad we've ever had but so have a lot of other teams thanks to the influx of cash in relation to other leagues.

Benchmark wise I think we should be getting Europa League and it should be seen as a bad season if we don't. If we could defend consistently we'd probably have a chance in the FA Cup but unless we get really kind draws I don't think we'll do it.
 

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